Thursday, November 19, 2009

How To Save or Create Jobs for Dumbassses

Boring-ass video below, but good for a laugh for its absurdity when you get to the facts and ideas that come next:



This post is inspired by the joke of the year, the misnamed site Recovery.gov, the governmnet site showing where all our tax dollars poured into the "stimulus" bill have been wasted spent and how many jobs have been theoretically (by having people guess) saved or created.  It's a joke because each day brings new inaccuracies, especially to the dubious "saved or created" column.  From early guesstimates to ridiculously inaccurate reporting to even the White House admitting the numbers are iffy, the numbers keep changing as the errors keep appearing.

And then to top the mess of the site itself, there's the price per job so far ($230,000), the failure of the stimulus to actually help the people that need it the most, and the fun and pointless ways that this supposed job-growing economic stimulus mess wastes money ($219,000 for Syracuse University to study the sex lives of freshmen women for example (shit, I'd to that (and the freshmen women) for lots less)). 

But the biggest laugh of them all.  The fucking site has $18 million allocated to make it work!!! To put that in perspective, for four distinct email addresses and three active blogs, some of which have tracking info, as well as online document storage applications, I pay NOTHING.  In fact, I theoretically make money with the ads on this blog.  All because there are business models that allow us to get lots of software and webspace for the price of a little advertising.  And in physical costs, all you need is the servers, some code writers, and some staff.  And considering the timeframe, how can a relatively simple site cost $18,000,00.00 just for the redesign? If anybody out there has a clue how much it costs to create a site with similar content in the real world, let me know.  That way I have a hard number to laugh at.  Or even better, put the info out and let the people who sort through this shit do it.

All this, along with an upcoming "jobs bill" and the Obama "jobs summit" is bordering on ridiculous, if it wasn't for the fact that all this flurry to solve complex market problems was not complicated (actually worsened) by incessant government intervention with mindless free cash.

For example, one problem is rising unemployment.  Part of this problem is that we keep paying people to be unemployed.  I remember back in 2001 when I was on unemployment, with little of a pressing need to get another job (my circumstances were better at that point).  When the unemployment was extended, I rode out the extension to the end, avoiding like the plague any temporary employment that would cut into my unemployment check.  After all, since I paid into the system, I was going to get as much of that money back.  I know of businesses that have used the unemployment system to get through slow periods (because their employees are still earning some money that way). 

In the end, real employment is created when businesses have an incentive to hire people.  The problem is that no one of consequence in Washington seems to know how to create any incentive that doesn't directly correlate to reelection votes.  So here's the list of things that will immediately get the engine of capitalism humming again, and will eliminate the need for Obama to even waste our time with his jobs summit.


The FairTax (or related concepts) - The very simple concept is that taxing businesses and individuals with increasingly complicated and punitive taxes for economic success makes money and jobs and whole companies start looking to Communist China as a land of opportunity.  And while I champion the all-inclusive solution of the FairTax, the principles that make it work are the key to dealing with the lack of motivation to create jobs in this country.  After all, when reams of paperwork and tax info are required any time you hire someone, you don't want to do it until you have no choice.  Instead, you dump more work on the people you have or use the temp agencies.  This, by the way, is why unemployment is a lagging indicator in a recession.

The Pit of Debt Despair - Along with fixing the obsessive need to tax everything in existence and everyone into "equality," much of our current mess is the result of an overaccumulation of debt, in both the private and government sectors.  While individuals will use debt to extend their buying power, business often will leverage a certain amount of debt to allow for operations even in tougher times, and governmnet has the ability to use debt in times of need (like wars and crises) to deal with situations, the chronic reliance on debt saps the ability to use money efficiently, and simply eats up value that could use to expand, and hire in the process.

Mandate Paranoia - Government mandates (like employer-provided health care (with penalties for not providing it) for example) are instant job killers.  Very simply, when legislation is working its way through Congress that is going to add to expenses, and companies are on a tight margin, why would they want to invest in employees that could suddenly cost a whole lot more with no added value?  The idea of adding profit-killing mandates at a time when job growth is a priority is simply dumb, whether the concept is good or not (my example is not a good concept, but even if it was, it's still another expense at a time when more expenses mean fewer jobs).


Sustainable Jobs - Government can't create them.  Period.  Let me clarify what a sustainable job is.  A sustainable job is something that produces something of value, which produces income, and therefore pays for itself.  Private industry creates these jobs in the pursuit of profit.  The things I have listed above are things that eat away at this profit without adding any real value.  And most of these are caused by government.  Contrast that with Government, which creates jobs by taking money from the private sector.  By and large, those jobs don't add any value to the economy or infrastructure, and are usually the most inefficient uses of money that could otherwise be adding value.  At best, government purchases things from the private sector that leads to added value.  And "stimulus" money too often artificially stimulates jobs that would not exist otherwise, until that money goes away.  Then it's pink slip time.

In the end, the manufactured "created or saved" numbers mean dick, as some may be jobs that would have come about anyway, some are bullshit numbers required to get fed cash, some are funded jobs (aka governmnet-by-proxy make-work funded jobs) that will die with the funding, and some may actually have been created or saved (at a cost of at least ten times the annual salary per job).  And in the end, as long as we keep looking to the government to "fix" the economy, the longer we'll languish.  After all, we have the legacy of government intervention by Presidents Hoover and Roosevelt to look at to see how an economic crash can last a decade.


Finally, and somewhat related to the post, here's a post I found in my research entitled Fun With Numbers!  It's worth a read, but it didn't fit exactly in what I was trying to point out.

40 comments:

BB-Idaho said...

"A sustainable job is something that produces something of value, which produces income, and therefore pays for itself. Private industry creates these jobs in the pursuit of profit."
Like to think so; used to be that way. As of late most of the good jobs created have gone overseas...

Patrick M said...

BB: Yeah. They go overseas because those jobs aren't sustainable here, but are somewhere else. That's part of my point. If the government keeps adding to the burden of employers here, then it becomes cheaper to go somewhere else.

TAO said...

Let me complicate your simpicity Patrick...

So, nothing wrong with shipping jobs overseas so we can import the stuff back into this country and sell it...

But if all the jobs are going over seas where do people in this country get money to buy the goods we import now?

We have obviously borrowed everything we could get our hands on to continue buying and continue justifying sending jobs off shore...and now we are cutting back because credit is maxed out and there are no high paying jobs...

So, now the party is over, the consumers have cut way back and will continue to do so, jobs will not be created until consumers start buying again....but those jobs will be created over seas...

So, there is no fix to our current situation...and no economic growth in the future....

So, think high unemployment for the next 10 years or so, high government debt and increased taxes...

Everytime you see "Made in China" you are making a house payment for somebody in China....and somebody in the US is losing their home...

Reverting to the mean is what I believed its called....where due to free markets the mean is defined by China and India...

Toad734 said...

Hmm, isn't being in the Army a job?

And I would ask Halliburton and Blackwater how they feel about the statement "The government can't create sustainable jobs".

Pasadena Closet Conservative said...

Boring video, yes, but worth sitting through.

TRUTH 101 said...

So your solution would have been the republican way of doing nothing Patrick? Wait for private industry to move more jobs overseas? Screw health insurance. It's just another burden on businesses and taxpayers. While we're at it, screw OSHA. If some idiot gets hurt because his employer was saving money by not having safety equipment and procedures that's too bad. The guy in China isn't whining about it. Why do we need the FDIC. Keep you money in your mattress.

dmarks said...

Tao said: "But if all the jobs are going over seas where do people in this country get money to buy the goods we import now?"

In all these years of free trade, the numbers of jobs in the US have only kept growing. It has happened that when it turned out that foreigners were better at some jobs than Americans, Americans found other jobs they were good at.

Of course, this was prior to the recent Bush-Obama recession, and its massive job loss, a crisis which was not related to free trade.

TAO said...

Dmarks,

Was free trade related to the financial market crash? NO! But since 1997, three years after the passage of NAFTA we have watched median household income drop but we cover this up with personal debt, which soared.

Americans did find other jobs, jobs of lower pay and less benefits.

So when the credit crisis hit and unemployment sky rocketed and the government goes out to create jobs....it can't!

Direct relation no...indirect relation YES!

dmarks said...

So... blame the Mexicans? How dare they do some jobs better than those north of the border!

dmarks said...

Anyway, it happens inside the country too. The unsustainable "legacy" business model of line workers being paid $50+ an hour to (sort of) put together the worst cars in the country (GM, etc) gives way to people being paid $20 an hour, still a good wage, even if it is not $50+ (KIA, etc).... new factories in different states.

TAO said...

Its funny, an American paid $50 an hour builds a shit car but an American paid $20 an hour builds a great car...is it who builds the car? How much they are paid? Or is it management?

How much does KIA, Toyota and the bunch get in subsidies to locate their plants down south...

Kentucky's Governor is calling a special session to put together a last ditch offering to lure Harley Davidson to Kentucky from Pennsylvania.

How about those KIA and TOYOTAS plants that are being mothballed because of low demand?

So, that will take $50 an hour down to $20 an hour...down to what? $8 an hour?

Which basically goes back to my point of reverting to the mean where the mean is determined by wages in China, India...and Mexico...

Nothing like back to the future is there dmarks!

dmarks said...

".is it who builds the car? How much they are paid? Or is it management?"

Or the lack of the UAW, which gets in the way of quality efforts.

"How much does KIA, Toyota and the bunch get in subsidies to locate their plants down south."

Not much. Usually it is a tax break, which is a promise to steal less from the company, not a promise to give the company anything (a subsidy).

"Which basically goes back to my point of reverting to the mean where the mean is determined by wages in China, India...and Mexico..."

Well, these countries are part of the world now, as they get better and better at doing things and making things.

TAO said...

Dmarks

Better check your facts about subsidies...

Let see what would you call a 10 million dollar program where a company gets to keep the state taxes collected from employees pay?

That is not taxes paid by the company but rather by the employees that is given to the company.

That looks like a bribe to me...or at least employees buying their jobs.

Thats called KREDA or KIRA here is Kentucky.

Every state has the same program.

What about free developed land? Like floating bonds to develop an industrial park and then giving the developed land to companies to relocate plants on?

Yep, Unions pretty much destroyed themselves as they have gone from a high of representing 35% of the workforce to their current representation of 12% of the workforce...

Greed kills and it is doing the same thing to our companies...

Capitalism feasting on its self.


Good thing we don't close those borders otherwize where would we get good employees from?

Maybe we can get the mexicans to provide national defense for us too? I am sure they can do military stuff alot cheaper than Americans can...

Toad734 said...

The UAW gets in the way of quality?? Maybe paying a CEO, who doesn't know dick about cars, 14 million per year, gets in the way of quality. Ford by the way is one of the higher quality cars on the market right now. Ford is now ranking up with or better than the Japanese cars.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/07/ford_tops_quali_2.html

Ford also did well in a recent study of crash tests. Toyota failed to make it to the top of that list.

Oh, and Fords are generally cheaper than Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs etc.

Ford:UAW!

Toad734 said...

The UAW gets in the way of quality?? Maybe paying a CEO, who doesn't know dick about cars, 14 million per year, gets in the way of quality. Ford by the way is one of the higher quality cars on the market right now. Ford is now ranking up with or better than the Japanese cars.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/07/ford_tops_quali_2.html

Ford also did well in a recent study of crash tests. Toyota failed to make it to the top of that list.

Oh, and Fords are generally cheaper than Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs etc.

Ford:UAW!

dmarks said...

Tao asked: "Better check your facts about subsidies..."

OK, easily:

Definition "Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as being in the public interest."

Hey, I already knew that.

"Let see what would you call a 10 million dollar program where a company gets to keep the state taxes collected from employees pay?"

That might be some sort of robbery of employees, perhaps? But it is not a gift from the government to the company.

"Yep, Unions pretty much destroyed themselves as they have gone from a high of representing 35% of the workforce to their current representation of 12% of the workforce..."

And a large % of that 12% is only in the union due to force.

"Good thing we don't close those borders otherwize where would we get good employees from?"

Well, it is true, that most of these evil Mexican illegals come here and work. Getting jobs because they are better at them than others.

"Maybe we can get the mexicans to provide national defense for us too? I am sure they can do military stuff alot cheaper than Americans can..."

Why not? Military service as a path to citizenship.

Napqueen said...

As your Old Hero from California would say
"There you go again" In your twisted mind you think that President Obama as no and/or will not create/save more jobs.
You realize that all your posts and your ridicules trys at humor amounts to nothing. History will show that Obama fixed an economy that Bush destroyed. These little tactical attempts to paint him as bad on the economy will amount to nothing if the economy recovers.. When the economy recovers.
So you're wasting your time. Your time would be better spent doing what all the other hateful Republicans are doing.. Obstructing a recovering economy. Without a doubt, Bush did more harm to this county than any other president we have ever had. The mess Bush put us in can not be undone in 10 months, he had 8 years to flush us down the toilet, what makes you think that Mr. Obama can undo that in a few months? Many of us patriotic ones hope he can and will accomplish this, especially in such a weak economic situation that America is in right now, because of Bush. People like you who seem to enjoy seeing Mr. Obama’s failures rather than his accomplishments are not at all helpful. . Mr. Obama is moving on other fronts to make good on his promises, lets give him a chance and not write these stupid blogs about him.

TAO said...

Yep, dmarks a gift is a subsidy and since you already knew that then it is just a matter of time before you come around and admit it...

It only hurts the first time.

So, without Unions employees can, through local governments, state governments, and chambers of commerce be forced to pay a kickback for their jobs!

29 years of Reaganism and the destruction of unions has led to crony capitalism!

Actually over 5% of union membership today is police officers, firefighters, teachers, and government employees...

Who are all paid with tax dollars collected from a growing un unionized work force!

Actually if you study the stats the only area where migrant labor, illegal aliens, and or immigrants excel at and outnumber US citizens in is tailoring!

Thus they are not BETTER, just cheaper...and we know what quality matters for nowadays don't we?

Why share citizenship for military service? That is so LIBERAL of you and almost bleeding heart...treat them as hired mercenaries and call it a day! Once they are done pay them and ship them home!

Toad734 said...

Napqueen:

You are talking about people who admit they want America to fail. This always happens, Republicans destroy the economy, Democrats have to come in and fix everything then once everyone has jobs again, crime goes down and things start going well, people get greedy and want a tax cut, Republicans promise this, get elected, cut taxes which cut social service and other programs and deregulate something which leads to a pyramid scheme and the economy crashes making a few rich republicans rich in the mean time then we vote in a Democrat to clean up the mess again.

This has all happened before and it will happen again.

In 7 years people just need to look back and remember 2008-2009 and what Republicans did to us, the country and the world.

D:

So you are saying unions force people and hold them against their will??

The reason Union jobs have gone away is because those jobs have been outsourced to Mexico, China and India. The price of these products have either stayed the same or gone up so its not like the unions are to blame, greedy CEOs are to blame and child slave labor of course. How many lives did the $5 you saved at Walmart today really cost?

The Illegal aliens don't get the jobs because they are better at them, they get the jobs because the employers are allowed to exploit them and Americans don't want that to happen to them.

TAO said...

Dmarks,

I got an idea! Lets just clean house and ship out all those high priced, lazy, good for nothing union members to Mexico...you know the ones that forced companies to go overseas to get good qualified employees who appreciate their employers and lets replace them with god fearing hard working and dedicated Mexicans...

Once we get this swap completed THEN we build us a fence across the border and get serious about immigration!

That will put Truth101 'south of the border!'

We won't need minimum wage anymore and sense everyone will be living below the poverty line we can wipe out our need for medicad...

What do we do about old people? They don't work, they drive like shit, and we give them free money every month and pay for them to clog up our healthcare system...

I say send them on a cruise and then sink the boat!

Ah, what a wonderful world it would be!

My Thoughts said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
My Thoughts said...

I'm so sick and tired of all you Obama apologists, when are you going to get over yourselves and call it as it is!
I'm so sick of the Democratic party. Elitist a-holes! I'm sick of this guy we have sitting in the white house and flying all over the friggen world apologizing for America who is backed by George Sores and who gives ACORN a free pass... . He is a fraud just like the of Congress
I am so sick and tired of the liberals in government, whether it be local or federal ...I’m sick Of 'The Late Hate Show' With Conan And David Letterman making fun out of a 12 year old when he is screwing his own staff behind his wife’s back.
I’m sick you liberals calling me a racist when you can’t find your own behinds with both hands and a compass. I’m sick and tired of these crooks in Washington that are tell us to pay our taxes when the entire Obama administration is behind on their taxes,or just don't see fit to pay them...
I'm so sick of seeing these hoodlum clowns on the corner getting free handouts walking around with their pants falling down. And I’m quite sick of the whole Obama three ring circus show. I'm sick and tired of all you liberal "Girly Men" and you republicans that kiss up to them like the guy that writes this ridiculous blog and thinks he’s so friggen smart, and thinks that if he cuddles up to his Liberal friends he’s so “Cool”. Only a kool-aid drinker can ignore the fact that this country is in deep sh*t

TAO said...

Wow! My Thoughts, you are one sick chick!

Doesn't seem like the sunshine enters your life much does it? If you have health insurance why don't you go and make an appointment to see your primary care physician and start getting treated for all the sickness you see all around you...

Or you can go over to Right is Right and you two could form a tag team of the two most miserable human beings the world has ever seen!

Nothing misery loves more than company! So go on over there and wallow in your self hate and disgust and just leave the rest of the world alone...

dmarks said...

Tao said: "We won't need minimum wage anymore"

We don't need it now. It's really a stupid policy, since it forces businesses (usually small ones) to become welfare agencies and hand out money to people regardless of their personal economic status. So the beneficaries include kids from rich families.

"What do we do about old people? They don't work, they drive like shit, and we give them free money every month and pay for them to clog up our healthcare system..."

What do we do about them? Fix Medicare: strongly means test it. No more free health care for rich senior citizens. The money saved can be used to improve health care for the indigent ones.

One thing the two poorly-crafted policies above have is that they are not means-tested: they end up being welfare for the rich. How is that defensible?

"those high priced, lazy, good for nothing union...."

That's pretty much true. If you look at what happens with strikes, union members tend to get big raises not for doing good work, but for loafing about.

Patrick M said...

Tao: So, nothing wrong with shipping jobs overseas so we can import the stuff back into this country and sell it...

Uh, you miss the point there. The government is creating the conditions that are making this happen. You follow the list of things I listed above, we get some of those jobs BACK.

Do I have to spell this shit out?

Toad: And I would ask Halliburton and Blackwater how they feel about the statement "The government can't create sustainable jobs".

I don't give a shit how they "feel" because if they're getting governmnet cash, it ain't sustainable. Duh...

101: So your solution would have been the republican way of doing nothing Patrick?

Uh, did you not read the latter half of the post?

Fine. Cut and paste time.

The four parts to fixing the mess: The FairTax (or related concepts), The Pit of Debt Despair, Mandate Paranoia, Sustainable Jobs. Go read the rest.

Nap: Do you just like to hear yourself stammer?

Obama is quadrupling down on everything Bush did wrong, and then some. And some more after that. And then some more. And if you remember, the first attempt to "fix" the "mess" of the Bush years was that Bush/Obama Wall Street bailout, as well as vote-buying checks for the "poor." Strangely, I'm the one consistent, whereas you're the one who's positions change based on the idiot in the Oval Orifice.

Why don't you and My (lack of cogent) Thoughts go at it.

Toad: Are you just giving props to Nappy so you sound less insane?

My Thoughts: Come back when you actually have a point that comes near the subject of the post. Or get in a bitch fight with Napqueen. My rectum stings from incoherence.

Dmarks: I think we both need a drink. 'Nuff said?

Anonymous said...

Talking about someone who likes to hear themselves talk, you to a great job at that. Do you really think that you could there and make dumb ass comments and your readers give a crap?. . This makes about as much sense as suggesting that Kieffer Sutherland should head the CIA

Patrick M said...

Anon: Thanks for figuring it out.

And Kieffer would probably be an improvement at this point. :)

My Thoughts said...

My goodness. Manners, manners, manners. Why are you reacting like this. Where are you spending your recovery?
Oh well thank you so much for understanding!!! I really did mean well, but after reading your stupid reply One has to ask.... Have you always been so full of shit or is this a new disease?
I have been reading your lame ass kissing blog for some time now, although I have been watching from he sidelines and shaking my head, I just couldn’t resist posting after I saw that perfect post from beth on her blog about you pandering to the libs. And just as she said, you go ahead and have fun with that, while they are laughing at you behind your back. It is sad that you are the only one that just don’t see it. But as long as you get the traffic to your blog, have a good time.

Patrick M said...

My: I never claimed to have manners. But manners dictate you at least start off with a comment related to the post rather than a rant about the (copious)evils of Obama. This my reaction. You'll not I had a similar reaction to the rantings of Napqueen.

Also, I don't kiss ass. But I am civil with civil people whether their ideas are good or cracked. And I will be responding to Beth's post with a post of my own that should address all these issues.

Me said...

NO, You DO Kiss Ass!

dmarks said...

Toad said: "The UAW gets in the way of quality??"

Definitely. They like to block any attempts at quality incentives. They make it hard to fire lousy workers (who get paid as much under contracts as good workers).

"Maybe paying a CEO, who doesn't know dick about cars, 14 million per year, gets in the way of quality."

Sometimes, yes. But that $14 million is not much compared to the total overpay of UAW workers.

"Ford by the way is one of the higher quality cars on the market right now."

Not true. They are only middle of the pack. They are higher quality than GM or Chrysler though.

"Ford is now ranking up with or better than the Japanese cars.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/07/ford_tops_quali_2.html"

Also not true. Check Consumer Reports, year after year. Including this year. Ford has a couple of good models, and many substandard ones. This puts them in sharp contrast to Honda, Toyota, Subara, etc which manage to have high quality across the board.

Check into the details of the study you linked to. In particular, this line: the definitive survey on things-gone-wrong in new vehicles measured in the first few months of ownership.

Think about this for a minute. Who in the hell buys a car without caring what happens after 90 days? The Consumer Reports evaluations are, in contrast, in the real world. For people who own cars for more than 3 months. They look at all of the problems that crop up.

Now, what do you want? A car that does will for 3 months, or one that does well for 5 years?

"Oh, and Fords are generally cheaper than Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs etc."

In that, you get what you pay for. Cars that hold together for 3 months, but mostly end up on the bottom of reliability rankings after a couple of years of ownership.

"Ford:UAW!"

Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and even Hyundai; objectively better products, without the UAW to get in the way of the mission of making good cars. Also without the UAW getting in the way of providing good jobs: these companies have been generally hiring more and more workers, while the UAW encourages the companies it is in to downsize.

Toad734 said...

YOu do just make this shit up don't you?

First off Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM, was making over 15 million per year. At 40,000 per year you could hire 375 auto workers. Hows that for making it harder to hire more workers. Contrast that with what the CEOs of Toyota and Honda make. Well, Honda won't release that info but its not anywhere close to 15 million.

My cousin is and uncles were all in a union working for GM, yes, the union was able to keep some dysfunctional workers working but never did they get in the way of actual quality of the products they were building...That's design.

My car was built by UAW in Michigan and is owned by Ford and it is now over 5 years old and the only thing I have had to replace was the CD player and one $100 ignighter coil. And so yes, I want a car that doesn't fall apart in the first 3 months...Sue me for wanting that and its not my fault Toyota, GM, BMW, Kia,etc. can't make a car that doesn't fall apart in the first 3 months.

And no you don't always get what you pay for. BMWs are far more expensive than a Toyota, Honda or a Ford and no one would say that they are of a better build quality or have fewer problems. They may have more features and gadgets but they aren't built better.

Here is yet another link from a few years ago about the Ford line of cars and their quality: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/ns/business-autos//
JD powers gets their information from people who have cars from the previous year, not just 3 months.

And by the way, books have been written about the working conditions at the Subaru facility in Indiana...How many books have been written about the working conditions of UAW plants?

I know you only care about rich white people who run these companies but I take into consideration how their employees are treated. Clearly people who shop at Walmart don't care about slave labor or child labor as long as their products are cheap and Walmarts executives get richer.

dmarks said...

"I know you only care about rich white people"

Not only are you making sloppy arguments, you are now making racist insults. Please take that back: it made you look like an idiot.

dmarks said...

I will address the other "arguments" of Toad, the liar who uses racist insults, soon.

TRUTH 101 said...

I don't call Patrick's engaging in discussion with those of us on the left ass kissing MT. I call it having a set of balls. The man could post the usual bullshit about socialism and other nonsense. Get 50 to 100 followers that parrot the same shit on their blogs and be another run of the mill mindless right wing fool.
But unlike Mt, RiR and so many of the others, Patrick cares about substance. He's never run from TAO like most of the righties do.


I still think you're a deluded butthead Patrick. But if I ever find myself in the same bar as you, I'm buying dude.

dmarks said...

OK, on to one of Toad's points:

"First off Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM, was making over $15 million per year. At 40,000 per year you could hire 375 auto workers."

I see you can do the math, but you only did part of it. If you do the rest of the job, you will find out that this 375 jobs is a mere fraction of 1% of the total GM workforce.

So, by sacking the CEO, you've really made no difference in the workforce.

Listen To Me said...

Truth101 Said:
'I don't call Patrick's engaging in discussion with those of us on the left ass kissing MT. I call it having a set of balls. The man could post the usual bullshit about socialism and other nonsense.'


Well of course that's a slanted Liberals opinion. And a sick puppy at that.
And he has the audacity to end with a neutral discussion of the issue which just furthers either its dishonesty or ignorance. I have a low tolerance for people like truthless, and it gets lower all the time. Patrick, when are you going to REALLY grow a set and when are you going to stop kissing up to these liberals?

dmarks said...

More Toad: "Here is yet another link from a few years ago about the Ford line of cars and their quality: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/ns/business-autos//"

Did you even look at that link? The Fords listed were niche/luxury models. Cars that even at their best are hardly seen on the roads anyway.

"JD powers gets their information from people who have cars from the previous year, not just 3 months."

You keep missing it. It's longer than 3 months, but come on now, who thinks of owning a car just one year? Do you? Of course not. You don't. A flawed methodology.

Patrick M said...

101: Eat shit and die, nutcase. And thanks. :)

Me, me, and me (whatever pseudos you goofs are rocking): I'll address this clearly on a future post, but the reason I am less tolerant of bullshit form conservatives (vs bullshit from liberals) is because I EXPECT BETTER!

dmarks said...

More Toad: "I know you only care about rich white people who run these companies"

I call you on this. Can you show one example of where I made a statement to support this? Or any statement anywhere in which I showed any racism or racial preference?

How can you "know" something that is entirely untrue? Is it drugs or something? Perhaps you are reading someone else's comments and mistakenly attributing them to me.

Addressing that last post of yours is like shooting fish in a barrel.