Sunday, March 21, 2010

Government-Run Healthcare and the All-Encompassing AOTW

Let's start the era of government-run health care with some old audio.  It's 10 minutes, so let's start it now as you read the rest.  I'm sure you've heard it before.

On Sunday, March 21, the United States House of Representatives, with a vote of 219-210 (2 not voting), committed this country on the path to government run health care.  Make no mistake:  the vote was not about "reform," but a transformation, that "change" that Obama has been harping on for the past year.  And even with the economy struggling since his inauguration, it has been more important for him to add debt, payoffs, and now a massive entitlement program that is riddled with gimmicks to make it not look as expensive as it is on paper, to say nothing of the actual costs in dollars, debt, jobs and lives.  And mind you, it will not be apparent, as it took decades for Social Security and Medicare to become unsustainable.

And with the votes counted and only the pen of Obama remaining to seal our fate (and the grim fact that I wrote this post prior to the vote when Stupak turned and only needed to add the vote totals):

The United States of America is Asshat Of the Week!

I can't really joke on this, so forgive me in advance if it seems more like I am trying not to hurl on my keyboard then applying my wit to a situation that is indeed dark.

Now I'm going to probably post on underpinnings of the ill-fated choice made Sunday throughout the week.  And Republican legislators, among others, are going to be working their asses off to try to peel back the obscenity that passed in the coming weeks and months.  And on the plus, it will mean a much greater chance of Obama being relegated to lame duck status, then the glory of one term.

However, the cry of "the Republicans will take away your health care" will echo retardedly for years to come by every Democrat who has no agenda other than to put more tits on the government pig.  After all, it worked for Social inSecurity and Mediscare.

Rep Stupak proved political bullshittery is more important than standing on a principle.  And most likely, he'll pay for those principles when the Pelosi gang screws him over on their promise to him then tries to get him booted.

And worst of all, expect that with Washington's propensity to worsen any situation, their attempts to control prices will backfire, doctors will opt out as long as they can then quit, and in the end, we'll be saddled with all the lovely features that make government-run health care in other countries suck, with none of the benefits because not only did we take the wrong direction in solving the problem, we did so in the worst of economic times and the most grabtastically backward way imaginable.

So the United States of America, that which was the land of the free, now has the government in control of its health care.
"One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project, most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it." - Ronald Reagan


Satyavati devi dasi said...

We've already proven that we cannot rationally debate this shit between ourselves.

I could do the booty dance and scream 'IN YOUR FACE' but it wouldn't get me anywhere particularly that I want to go.

I will suffice it to say that this is something I have been passionately supporting for more than half my life, and I am overjoyed to see the United States making its first shaky steps towards a more compassionate, more proactive society that realizes that the entire country is stronger morally, politically, and economically when the entire country is physically healthier and enjoys freedom from the fear that one accident or sickness will destroy them financially forever.

The struggle has gone on for a hundred years. It isn't over, but we are closer than we've ever been. And I am taking this day to enjoy the moment.

Toad734 said...

I wasn't aware people in Sweden, Japan, Norway, UK, Cuba, etc. hated their health care. I mean, I know they lived longer and had a lower infant mortality rate and are healthier but I didn't know they claimed their system sucked.

And by the way, we are a long ways away from having "socialized medicine".

The doctors are free to go to Mexico and practice medicine but we all know that won't happen because they still have all the drug companies to fund their golf outings and private boats.

Patrick M said...

Saty: You enjoy the moment. I look forward to seeing my children less well off and less free than I.

That's the legacy of the vote on Sunday.

Toad: When you have a different culture, different health patterns overall, or count your infant mortality differently (the reason we appear to suck), you get those kinds of results.

Also, as for Cuba, you're trying to compare a 3rd world dictator's massaged stats to ours? That's almost as retarded as Michael Moore, who did so on film (and was full of shit).

And when the doctors who want to make a real living doing what they do can't make a living, they'll move somewhere they can. As will the pharmaceutical companies.

Now as for "socialized medicine," we're not there. Yet. But the framework is now in place that it is now an inevitability rather than a point of debate.

As for the Maher clip? Funny, but he plays a clip that wage controls (which Obama happens to be working on as well), and command economy come after the medicine. It hasn't happened. Yet.

Patrick M said...

Toad: More reading, because the Wikipedia is just the beginning....

Toad734 said...

Where are the doctors going to move? Where are they paid more than in the US???
There is no other place that sells drugs for more, or where the doctors make more than here in the US. There is no other game in town so they aren't going to go to Nigeria to practice medicine...although, it may be a good thing if they did.

And stop pretending that doctors in France,Germany and Japan are poor. If they were, we would have tons of German and French doctors here in the US but we don't, we have doctors from Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, India, etc., places that don't have a universal health care system.

Again, wage controls only come to companies who took tax payers money. If the free market was so good to them and the CEOs were so smart they were worth their 12 million dollar per year salaries, they wouldn't be broke asking for my money. If you are on my court you play by my rules or go home (bankrupt). I say I want my money back and if that means you have to become leaner by shedding some fat cat salaries then that's what you have to do. I like how you think it's ok when they cut jobs, just as long as the millionaire doesn't get paid less. That makes no sense.

Are you trying to say that Japan, France, Sweden, Norway, UK, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, all have higher infant mortality rates than the US? Check your numbers again, you will find you are wrong. And I wouldn't doubt if Cuba really does have a lower infant mortality rate. And we all know the people in these countries live longer and healthier than Americans. Sure, part of that is that they don't have guns and shoot each other but if you want to have that debate as well, I am game.

I think what Michael Moore was doing was showing that even in Cuba, anyone can get health care and medicine there, as with the rest of the world is 50% or more, cheaper than the medicine here because they don't have 6 drug company lobbyist for every senate seat in their countries.

Toad734 said...


As of Sunday, your children are more free and more secure.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

Also, you may want to google 'medical tourism'.

This is where Americans, who presumably have the best healthcare in the world, go to places like Costa Rica, Mexico, and India to have procedures done by top notch, experienced surgeons in beautiful hospitals (where, incidentally, they get treated like royalty) for a fraction of the cost they'd get it here.

Gee, and yall think everyone comes here.

Patrick M said...

Toad: To countries where they can make money when the government mandates all their payments, not just the Mediscare ones. And the drug companies will be moving there too, especially when the only way they can make money is by not having to deal with all the regulations and bullshit (some of which is a good thing) that goes into getting new drugs to market in the USofA. And screw the innovation when there's no lucrative market to make back the costs. On the plus, the drug runners will be swallowing condoms full of meds in the future.

...wage controls only come to companies who took tax payers money.

Right now, yes. But when the government decided that the insurance companies they have their claws into pay their CEOs too much.... And spare me the "but they DO!!!" holler, because I know it just crossed your mind. The point is that the government shouldn't have the power to dictate the salaries private companies pay to the people they hire.

Are you trying to say that..., all have higher infant mortality rates than the US?

I'm saying we don't have clear numbers, and that the incessant need to quote this as "proof" is bullshit. And if Cuba has lower numbers, it's because they don't count babies they smack against the wall in front of the parents or something.

No, Michael Moore makes a living flacking for liberal causes with mildly entertaining and obviously misleading docu-bullshit.

And have you ever heard of something called price controls?

Saty: Yeah. That's because, unless you have a shitload of money, you can't afford to pay for that level of health care here without a third party paying, due to the half-ass system we had.

And that's where all the people who can afford it will go one day. The rest get to wait their government-assigned turn for government-run care.

Toad734 said...


Ya, I actually know people who go to Costa Rica for medical and dental care. Don't know many who go to Mexico though.


The drug companies aren't going anywhere. Again, those governments are mainly single payer and dictate the price of medicine, which those companies can afford to sell it at or they simply wouldn't sell in those countries.
And my mom used to work in doctors offices in collections, and yes, doctors here spend a lot of time, money and resources just trying to collect the money they are owed. In many cases my mom figured out that when people owed them $5000 for instance and the doctors weren't collecting any of it, the people would gladly pay $1000 to be done with it and not have their credit ruined. So these doctors had to pay my mom and all kinds of staff who generated all kinds of PW to collect 20% of what they were owed. Now, they still increased their revenues this way and made more money than they were making but imagine how much money they could save, and how much easier budgeting would be for them if they knew they were going to collect their money? Isn't that worth a drop in pay, assuming that in a single payer system in the US that doctors would make less, which no one can prove that they would.

So maybe you are right but still, you don't see a lot of French, English and German doctors in the US and if they weren't making money there, they would most certainly be moving here.