I'm too tired to post anything original. So here's what I can find on The Marxist (Obama) from the mailbag. Haven't verified anything, but I don't really care today:CHANGE CHICAGO STYLE
Body count: In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago, 221 killed in Iraq.
Sens. Barack Obama [AKA The Marxist] & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.,Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike), Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of former Mayor Richard J. Daley).....the leadership in Illinois.....all Democrats.
Chicago is a combat zone. Of course they're all blaming each other.
Can't blame Republicans, they’re aren't any!
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look'em up if you want). Chicago school system one of the worst in country.
This is the political culture that The Marxist comes from!
He's gonna 'fix' Washington politics? Yeah, right!
28 comments:
I'm surprised that you don't understand that a US Senator has no jurisdiction over street crime in any one city in his/her state. None.
That is the purvey of the mayor of a particular city, or the governor not the US Senator--he or she has no direct control over it.
And comparing Iraq combat deaths to random violence in any American city is batty. Apples and oranges.
I'm surprised you don't understand that too.
I've noticed that the better Obama does in the polls, the more virulent the extreme righties get.
Calling him a Marxist makes you and your ideological pals feel smugly superior, but you're looking like a modern-day Joe McCarthy. All he could do when backed in a corner is yell COMMIE!
And we all know how he ended up.
PS. Instead of raging about Sen. Obama, you should take a closer look at the political wreck that is Sarah Palin.
Not only didn't she know one friggin' Supreme Court decision other than the one Couric supplied (Roe vs. Wade) she wasn't able to name one newspaper that she reads on a daily basis.
My 10 year old niece is more informed than Palin is.
Rage all you want at Obama, but it is Palin who's the reason McCain isn't 10 points ahead of him.
Thank you for a Very good post.
Since 2003, twice as many soldiers have been killed in Iraq than citizens have been killed in Chicago. Now, there are 2.8 million people in chicago compared to about 150,000 troops in Iraq. So in Chicago you have a murder rate of 10.4 per 100k but in Iraq you have a murder rate of 147 per 100k people. Ill take my odds in Chicago any day of the week. How about that, I'll stay in Chicago for a month and you go to Iraq for a month and we will see who comes back alive?? Since Iraq is so much safer than Chicago, you go there and I will stay here.
Ill verify the 10.25% sales tax, I think in a couple of months it goes up to 10.5%. Now, we do get something with that money. Yes, I believe we have a larger city government then either NYC or L.A. and that is a problem but we also have one of the best and largest library systems in the country, one of the best and most expansive park systems in the country, a massive public transportation system, 2 major airports, the 2nd largest convention center in the world (which I could do without) and you can hardly drive anywhere in the summer without seeing beautiful landscaping, murals, flowers (instead of trash and graffiti) on the side of the roads. What this means is jobs and jobs that pay well. Go to cities, like the one right next to us, Gary, and see what a 7% sales tax and very small city government and no jobs gets you. For that matter, check out Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis or other large Midwestern cities and compare those to Chicago. Try selling your house in Cleveland; I could sell my condo in Chicago and make $40000 over what I paid for it 5 years ago, even in this market. Last year my neighbor’s condo was on the market for a week and she got exactly what she was asking for. We are still building new construction in Chicago which is one of the few places where home builders still have a job. So, although I hate it, and I will from now on, go to Indiana to make big purchases (which I should have done for my new computer), that former 8.75% sales tax and now 10.25% sales tax is doing something for someone. Maybe not the crack dealers who are shooting each other but those people in those neighborhoods still have access, not to good schools, but at least to libraries, parks, mass transit and community centers just as people do in the neighborhood where I live.
Now, since Obama has never been in city government, he has absolutely nothing to do with any of this I don't get what all the crime and high taxes in Chicago has to do with him. And you red staters should be kissing Chicago's hairy bean bag for having such high taxes which means Illinois sends more tax revenues to the federal government which pays for your corn fields, farmers, oil wells, bauxite mines, rednecks named Bristol who get knocked up when they are 17 and all your other welfare that you suck from profitable blue states like NJ, CA, IL, NY, WA, MA etc.
So how's that crime rate in places like Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Houston? What are the teen pregnancy, out of wedlock child births, divorce rates and crime rates in red states compared to "Marxist" blue states? Let’s look at the economies of Blue states like Illinois, California, New York vs. the grain silos and smoke stacks of the red states. Let's look at liberal, socialist California which has a higher GDP than all the former states of the Confederacy combined.
What ever liberals are doing, it's working. What ever red state nose pickers, church goers are doing, isn't. And the only reason they can do what they do and keep their local taxes low is that they are sucking off the government tit which gets most of its tax revenues from "Marxist" blue states like Illinois. And since over 50% of Illinois population resides in the Chicago area, I think you should be happy to leave well enough alone.
I tried to verify "Change Chicago Style" for you, but Snopes doesn't have it. At least not yet.
There are in excess of 40,000 deaths due to car accidents every year, but we don't hear a lot of hoopla about that.
http://www.lawcore.com/car-accident/statistics.html
Good post. Sorry your tired. Get some rest!
Toad, do you seriously think if your tax rate is 10.25% and mine is 7.75% that the federal government is getting more from you than me?
Sales tax rates are all based on state rates, plus country rates, plus any local rates that may be part of it. For us in Ohio, mostly local taxes come from payroll taxes and real estate taxes (these pay for the schools as well as the libraries).
The federal government has all sorts of other taxes they get from you, but the sales tax is not one of them.
OMG, Toad..
I think I love you.
Beth:
No, not always. I didn't say that. I said that typically states/communities with higher local taxes happen to be states that don't depend on kickbacks from the federal government to clean up their hurricanes, floods, crop subsidies, mining/drilling subsidies, medicare subsidies, funding for abstinence only education, infrastructure maintenence, etc.
There are things called welfare states which take more federal funds than funds they provide to the federal government. These states are almost always, conservative red states with low state and local sales taxes or taxes elsewhere such as license plates. Indiana is a perfect example of this. Indiana has low sales and property taxes but everyone pays much for more their license plates than we do in Illinois. A lot of people on the border use phony Illinois addresses to get cheap Illinois license plates. Those types of hidden taxes aren't accounted for when discussing "high socialist tax rates".
Of course the Federal Government doesn't collect it's money from sales taxes but when states don't collect enough for themselves, the federal government has to cover the rest.
I don't believe Ohio is a welfare state. Some of the worst states are Mississippi, Louisiana,South Carolina, Oklahoma, Montana, etc. For instance, for every dollar Illinois sends to the federal government it gets approximately $.77 in return but for every dollar Mississippi sends to the federal government they get $1.84. Apparently keeping gays out of your state is a costly operation.
Let's face it, this country couldn't survive without liberal California's revenues but would we even notice if the Bible Belt sank to the bottom of the ocean? In fact, we could probably erase our deficit if that happened.
So then Toad, isn't your argument a good reason why the federal government shouldn't be in charge of income redistribution through our taxes?
Shaw: Deny, deny, deny.
I never stated that The Marxist was responsible for everything in Chicago. But he comes from a town where Democrats have been screwing it up for a while. It's just another link in the chain that explains his behavior, his worldview, and his Marxist tendencies.
And I'm going to refer to him as The Marxist until either you get off the incessant Sarah bashing or until The Marxist is relegated to the political ash heap. When you own candidate (not Sarah) is a half-ass, there aren't a whole lot of other options. Especially when the opposition has taken the McCarthyite router first.
My 10 year old niece is more informed than Palin is.
With you (and your worship of The Marxist) for an aunt, I doubt it.
Eric: Welcome. And thanks, although I can't take that much credit. Hell, I couldn't even be bothered to fact-check it.
Toad: Thanks for the fact check, first of all. I knew you'd be on it like The Marxist on the Destroy-America train.
Ill verify the 10.25% sales tax, I think in a couple of months it goes up to 10.5%.
Holy hell, I'd be organizing the lynch mob for the city officials over that.
What ever liberals are doing, it's working.
Bullshit. I have lived in some very red territory (even our liberal Democrats are conservative) most of my life, and we do very well on very little. It's this thought that greatness comes from an ever-expanding government. And with the power and freedom that the Internet provides, there's no reason to hang around in the city. Except for maybe bagels. With the cream cheese. The creamy creamy cheesey cheesey cream. (Sorry, channeling Foamy)
And yeah, Cleveland sucks. Of course they're liberal as liberal can get.
I don't believe Ohio is a welfare state.
We have some counties. They vote Democrat.
Gayle: I can't rest until sanity is restored and The Marxist is defeated.
Beth: Point of correction. 6% of our sales tax is state. We're at 7.5% due to the county.
Maybe you should explain to Toad how bad the libs have messed up Cleveland.
Saty: Sometimes you scare me. :)
They aren't in charge of income redistribution, corporate America is.
So you are saying that Mississippi should get rid of its $12,000 marriage tax exemption if they want to keep receiving Illinois money? Sure I would be up for them eliminating their tax breaks so they don't have to get money from their people as opposed to me.
If the US ended corporate welfare today, the American people could get tax refund checks twice the size of the ones we got in 2001.
In the 1950s, corporate America paid 33% of all federal taxes, by the 90s they only paid 15% while individuals saw their tax burden raise by 60%
The Big 3 and their rich CEO received 33 million dollars of working people’s tax money while posting 13 billion in profits in 1995 but since 1979 they have laid off over 350,000 union waged employees while the compensation of their CEOs increased.
From 1980 to 2006 CEO pay in the US went from 40x the amount of their average worker to 364 times the amount of their average worker.
(AFL-CIO)
From 2006-2007 the total compensation for top executives rose over 20% but revenues only increased 2.8 % and workers pay only increased by 3.5% to $36140. (US Bureau of Labor statistics)
Between 1976 and 1998 the share of the nations private wealth ownership held by the top 1% went from 22% to 38%. In the same time, the net worth for the bottom 40% of wealth owners decreased by 76%. (www.Levy.org)
The number of millionaires and billionaires increase every year in the US while the number of people living in poverty increase along with them.
In 1982 the wealthiest 400 owned 92 billion dollars, by 2000 it had increased to 1.2 trillion
By 2003, over 400,000 US jobs have been shipped over seas and that number is expected to reach 3.3 million by 2015. (Forrester Research)
The people who mainly benefit from outsourcing are share holders and corporate brass (the rich) who can increase profits by cutting US jobs. The McKinsy Global Institute estimates that outsource nets a 45-55% savings to US corporations yet the cost of shoes and clothing made overseas has gone up.
Workers who lost these jobs, if they were able to find employment, typically experienced a pay cut of at least 15%
That is income redistribution!
What, you thought raising taxes on rich people to pay for healthy school lunches was income redistribution? No, not even close.
PAT:
Ok, so is the point that Liberals screwed up Chicago, which i pointed out they haven't as Chicago is one of the best cities in the world, or that with too few taxes they screwed up cleveland? How is one group of liberals in charge of one city and another in charge of another city but both with drastically different results, the same?
And let's talk about the places run by Conservatives. If Massachesetts, NY, California, Washington, Oregon, NJ,RI, IL, MN, WI are all liberal and they are, and thats somehow bad, why are they the ones with the best colleges (the top 15 colleges with the exception of Duke are in liberal states)the ones with the best cities, the ones with the most culture, most of the nations GDP, Less crime, (the conservative south has the highest crime rates), least amount of social problems, higher education levels, higher average IQs (by 1.5-2 points), have the companies who make all the innovations (Microsoft, Boeing, Ford, Apple,Sun, Intel, etc.)??
And with regards to Ohio and welfare counties is concerned, any country without sky scrapers that is mainly corn fields, is a welfare country. Not the ones with small houses and black people. Those are the counties that pay the bills for the rest of the state. Sure some suburban counties took their wealth with them when they moved from the city but they wouldn't exist wihout Cleveland. Sorry but if it weren't for Cleveland there would be no Avon Lake.
Im sorry, your argument just doesn't hold a lot of water.
My 10 year old niece is more informed than Palin is.
With you (and your worship of The Marxist) for an aunt, I doubt it.
I was able to name at least FIVE Supreme Court decision other than Roe vs. Wade. FIVE.
Sarah Palin: NONE. NONE.
You just can't face that she's a cipher. You'd rather shit on me or anyone else who points this out.
Reality is a bitch, isn't it.
Calling me names doesn't make Sarah Palin smart. No matter how many times you do it.
She wasn't even able to name a newspaper or magazine she reads. NONE. Why? That was a gimme.
But she couldn't come up with even an Alaskan newspaper.
WTF?????
But call me all the shitty names you want. It doesn't change the fact that she's a cipher.
Toad is like a late birthday present for me today.
:)
It's funny to see how people claim that the higher the tax rate, the better off the People are.
Bull-diddly-shit! I've lived in New Zealand for the last 10 years and I can tell you that you can have a standing tax rate at 20% and people are still getting shafted.
New Zealand is very much a Western Culture country with ideals as modern and matured as America's but there is still a big divide between the Haves and the Have-Nots.
The problem, is the assholes running the country. Much like America, there are politicans set out to look after themselves and the little man gets to cop the consequences.
We have a Goods and Services Tax (GST) rate of 12.5% and that money is supposed to go towards making the country a better place. But, it's the Liberals in charge that squander it on bullshit Free Trade deals with China (nice one, Helen. Thanks).
As violent crime spirals out of control, maybe we can take a leaf from the Moari Iwis and start lodging decades-long claims for shit that belongs to everyone.
Toad: They aren't in charge of income redistribution, corporate America is.
Do you even own a dictionary? Or a shred of common sense?
Only the government redistributes income. If they're giving it to corporations, then that should end. We agree there. But if a company makes the money, it's their money. Again, you blame the company for using the system to their advantage when the real problem is the system itself. And if you think The Marxist will sweep that away, you're going to get a surprise. Just the names will change.
The point is that if you want higher taxes, more debt, and more government growth, then The Marxist is your choice.
And have I ever stated everything liberal is automatically bad? No. But you seem perfectly fine to trade freedom and cash to have your needs met. There are many of us out here that don't.
And my county is not anywhere near Cleveland and is not a welfare county.
Shaw: I didn't call you names. I don't think you can see the positives of the McCain/Palin ticket or any negatives in your candidate. Or if you do, you'd never admit them.
And your obsession with attacking Sarah incessantly proves this.
Stop wasting my time until you can manage to type something more intelligent. I'll get back to posting things more intelligent posts in return.
Saty: Happy birthday. I think.
Fatman: One thing I've noticed is that many countries that have embraced socialism and Marxism have begun to try to dig their asses out of it. Meanwhile, we're adopting all the shit-for-brains socialist solutions, and digging yourselves a serious hole.
But hey, The Marxist is going to make us Hope for Change!
Shaw: I finally saw the clip where Katie Couric asks Sara about the Supreme Court cases.
The question (and I paraphrase) was "What Supreme court decisions do you disagree with?"
I couldn't come up with one in a pressure situation either.
Now I could name off a whole bunch of them, but not one that I disagree with. I'm sure there's one somewhere, but that's a fucking gotcha question and you know it.
Like I said, you're so fucking hellbent on defending your Marxist that you'll shade, distort, and probably lie to do it. I'll let you and the other readers decide how Clintonesque your disingenuous characterization of Sarah was. Somehow, I think everybody will disagree with you.
Toad, I too do not agree with corporate welfare, ever. Corporations should either thrive or fail based on their own merit.
You can't call what corporations do "redistribution of wealth". When you work for a corporation, you get paid for your work. When you buy something from a corporation, you pay them for it. This is not redistributing wealth because there is an EXCHANGE of goods or services for the payment. In income redistribution, money is given in exchange for nothing!
And in regards to corporate tax burdens, do you realize that taxes are an expense for corporations to do business, and so they pass on the expense to the consumer, either way you and me are going to pay the taxes. What I propose is low taxes for everyone and every business, the government should not need to decide how to spend our money, we should. This is how an economy should work, without interference from the government!
Furthermore, it's higher corporate taxes that make businesses want to move overseas.
As for CEOs making way too much money, it's these stupid bailouts such as the one just voted on that make the sitution worse. If these fat cats know they can screw up and not be held accountable, really why not get overpaid? No, I say let them crash and burn and then they'll be forced to clean up their act.
I couldn't come up with one in a pressure situation either.
Is Sarah Palin the Governor of Alaska? Does Exxon Valdez have anything to do with her state?
Did the Supreme Court just recently pass down an opinion on the Exxon Valdez?
June 26, 2008: The U.S. Supreme Court decision on Wednesday that cuts the damages to about $500 million means that Wills will receive only $15,000, he said.
Only this past June, three months ago, she said she was very disappointed with the decision.
Why didn't she name that decision that directly affected her state???
Here she is in her own words:
http://tinyurl.com/45pssv
PS. I hit the publish button too soon.
Please explain to me how asking her a gimme question whose answer DIRECTLY involves her state in a Supreme Court decision handed down just three months ago is a "gotcha" question?
Couric apparently assumed the governor would know about a decision that directly involved her state and that Palin herself is seen on video denouncing it.
How in the hell is that a "gotcha?"
Couric actually gave Palin a very, very easy question. I'm sure she believed the governor would be able to remember a Supreme Court decision she disagreed with that occurred just 3 months prior to the interview.
And you accuse me of being outrageously partisan?
Moi?
You should have done a little reseaarch before you called that question a "gotcha."
It wasn't. And the friggin' country knows it now.
Shaw: I'm still gonna call the question a gotcha.
Here's why: You're talking about a judgment that was essentially a local issue. Important, yes.
But Palin's entire mental orientation since the announcement has been focused on coming up to speed on national issues. So when you're expecting the gotcha question to be about some foreign issue or intricacy and nuance of McCain's positions over the last two decades, the old information gets moved to the side.
And here I fault the McCain camp. They have been preparing her to answer questions in support of McCain, which has led to her sounding less like the person conservatives were enthusiastic about when she was announced.
This is why the debate is so damned important. No scripts, no editing, and a relatively even playing field. If she does well there, then I'll be convinced you're full of shit. If she crashes and burns, I'll agree immediately.
Palin believes dinosaurs and humans co-existed 5,000 years ago...that sums up her intellect, or lack thereof.
Pat:
1st of all, when wealth, as with what is happening right now with the bailout, goes away from schools, roads, services (the people) and goes into the pockets of the elite and ultra rich, that is wealth redistribution no matter who does it. When Zenith closes their plant that makes TVs and fires workers making 30k per year and then sends those jobs to China and instead of lowering the price and passing the savings on to us, they keep the extra money to pay their rich CEOs and now the only job left for the guy who got fired is to sell those same TVs at Wal-Mart for $10 per hour, part time, with not benefits, that is wealth or income redistribution as well. What do you not get about that?
And no, higher taxes doesn't mean a bigger deficit, it means a lower deficit. When Bush lowered taxes, he created a deficit, when taxes were a little higher, Clinton balanced the budget. This too is a pretty simple concept.
I highly doubt that your rural county doesn't collect more federal subsidies than tax revenues it generates. If you grow corn in your county, your country is on the government tit. That's why places like Indiana, Nebraska and Tennessee always vote republican because they rely on corn, tobacco and soybean subsidies and the republicans get it for them.
You traded freedom and cash in the name of the war on terrorism so I don't know what you are talking about. In fact, you gladly traded your personal freedoms and the price of oil for the war in Iraq. Where have I ever said I wanted to trade my freedom and money in to have my needs met? Certainly not my freedoms and if my taxes go towards public schools and the next generation that will be taking care of me when I am old is able to read, sure that benefits me. But this is a big country and it requires a lot of resources to run it. We have the 5th largest population and land area in the world; it requires a big government to take care of all of that. I love how you guys don't mind big government when it bosses other countries around and spends billions over seas and on useless wars but when someone talks about sending money to the inner city and helping black kids you freak out.
Beth:
I just explained in this post to pat how income and wealth redistribution works on a corporate level so I won’t repeat it.
If you want to keep companies from moving over seas to avoid taxes you should be voting for Obama, not McCain. And I am all for that move of closing tax loopholes which benefit companies who outsource.
We may have a high corporate tax RATE, on paper, as compared to the rest of the world but we also have more tax loopholes than any other place in the world which means big corporations here pay some of the lowest amounts of actual taxes compared to the rest of the world. Our economy was worked just fine when we had a higher tax rate and companies weren't outsourcing labor and union workers made a decent wage.
So why lower taxes here? If companies can shelter their profits overseas and pay no taxes, why would they come back to the US to pay 25% as opposed to 35%?
55% of all domestic corporations have gone at least one year without paying any income tax. The number for foreign companies is 68%. More than 3500 large corporations with more that 250 million in assets paid no taxes in 2005.
25% of the largest US corporations had 1.1 trillion in sales in 2005 but paid no taxes. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08957.pdf
So exactly what costs are they passing on to the consumers? Their bloated CEOs pay check, that's what they are passing on to the consumer. And if Levis, Gap, Converse, etc. have all been reducing costs of their products by going overseas, why are their products now more expensive than they were when they were made in the US? The cost of Converse Chuck Taylor’s went up $5 a pair when they shut down their NC facility and started MFG in China. This was just a couple of years ago.
So don't give me any crap about how large corporations pay too much in taxes and that’s why they outsource. That is bullshit. Since the 50s corporate taxes have been falling and since that time is when they started finding tax shelters and outsourcing. So the opposite of what you say, in practice, is true. Logic would say that you should be right but you are not.
And yes, these bailouts make things worse. With no regulation, something McCain has always stood for, these things are going to happen and someone has to bail these guys out just like Reagan had to do after he deregulated the Savings and Loans and thrift banks. Republican deregulation got us to where we are today.
If you are for closing tax loophole advantages for corporations who use tax shelters and outsource jobs and you are against having to bail out an industry every time greed circumvents regulation, you should be voting for Obama, not McCain.
Of course if you watch Fox News, Obama is an American hating Muslim terrorist who likes to kill white babies.
"John: Cite a source or stop being stupid."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9Zy-qQQ
Scary mumblings from someone WAY over her head.
"Obama is a Marxist"...cite me a source, i.e. not your biased opinion, or stop being stoopid yourself (and get out of that glass house of yours).
Toad: What do you not get about [wealth redistribution]
I don't get how you can distort the definition so and still call yourself honest. But that's to be expected.
John: Thanks for the propaganda film. I'm sure it made your contention somewhere, but if that's the best you've got...
BTW, I call The Marxist such because I read his plan.
Oh, and I don't live in a glass house. Interferes with masturbation. :)
Palin on Roe v. Wade Supremem Court Decision: ``There's, of course, in the great history of American rulings, there have been rulings, that's never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are those issues, again, like Roe v Wade, where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know going through the history of America, there would be others.''
Patrick,
you're making excuses for her. A nimble mind would have been able to come up with the recent Supreme Court Decision affecting Alaska. That was just 3 months ago.
Your twisting youself into a pretzel to excuse her. And all that does is show us your inability to see Palin except through your biased rightwing glasses.
Tonight, I'm sure she'll get off zingers and cutie-pie one liners. But that won't cover up the fact that she's under qualified and not only can't answer basic questions she should be up on no matter her being briefed by McCain's people, but questions that show off her intellect, depth of knowledge, and ability to understand complex issues, without giving us bromides instead.
Let's see if she can do it.
Shaw: Your twisting youself into a pretzel to excuse her.
No. I'm applying my personal experience from doing tech support.
To diagnose a problem requires focusing in on the specific problem. If I get something thrown at me from left field, it takes a while to figure out the correct answer. Switching gears is not the easiest thing in the world, and I suspect the gotcha atmosphere that has shown up since Sarah came on the scene creates this. Any time you go in with expectations, something out of left field can catch you off.
But the debate will answer the important questions, so I'll leave it until then.
No. I'm applying my personal experience from doing tech support.
To diagnose a problem requires focusing in on the specific problem. If I get something thrown at me from left field, it takes a while to figure out the correct answer. Switching gears is not the easiest thing in the world, and I suspect the gotcha atmosphere that has shown up since Sarah came on the scene creates this. Any time you go in with expectations, something out of left field can catch you off.
Sorry, Patrick. You're not running for the second most important position in the frikkin world.
Palin is.
There is no exucuse for her not remembering a Supreme Court Decision that impacted her own state--of which she is the governor.
Your attempts to excuse her just don't work.
And you know it.
Shaw: I have supreme confidence in my ability to fill the role of VP.
I have supreme confidence in my ability to be President.
Sarah has more experience than I.
it's a toss-up with The Marxist, except on voting present.
But then I don't necessarily think government and political experience alone means shit.
Again, it depends on the debate. Which is starting shortly, and I will post on tomorrow.
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