Friday, September 11, 2009

Eight Year Anniversary

I'll apologize in advance if this post tends to ramble rather than adhere to some cogent commentary. This is mainly because an event such as this, with repercussions and wars and intense political disagreements and social upheavals that still dominate us, cannot be easily covered in one blog, without either focus on a single subject or gross simplification. So I'll just share what ever has come to mind and what makes me remember so that none of us ever forget:
On the TV - Sometimes the memories are sprung on me at the least likely times. This is because so many movies were set in New York. And for movies who were released prior to the fateful day, any shot of the skyline was dominated by those two towers. Superman has flown past those fallen icons (NYC standing in for Metropolis in the pre-digital era). King Kong, in one of his incarnations, scaled the towers (because they were taller). Even John fucking McClain was dragging Sam Jackson's reluctant ass around with them standing tall in the background (and I'm glad the movie didn't end up in the WTC, or it would have disappeared (based on what happened to the building in the first Die Hard)). Even in movies that don't have them, their absence is felt.

Other times (and today is one of them) the various educational channels go to 9/11 documentaries. Then there's the 24/7 news channels. This was possibly the most-covered event, and they have so much footage. I continue to learn more with each new documentary, even each new rerun of the footage. And I never forget.

9/11 Education -One thing that struck me in the first year of my son's life is that he was born into a world where the WTC is only a memory and America is no longer innocent. This is significant, as there was a time between the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War and the 9/11 attack when there was no perceived threat to the country. It was this I spent the beginning of my adult life. There was something comforting about the idea that we had won, and real peace reigned over much of the world. It proved to ultimately be false, but the idea persisted, with blemishes to our superiority in other parts of the world (Somalia) and wars that were "clean" (the Gulf War).

But growing up in the last decade of the Cold War, when we were still only one button press away of annihilation. While we weren't really in the "duck and cover" phase of it, the presence was always a part of the culture. Now, my children will not know the Red menace, but will grow up under the fear of an enemy among us.

Yet they do not remember how it began. The September 11th Education Trust, however, works to make sure our children know. And we must also never forget.

My Newest Infonugget - We learned many things from the attack, from what choices and mistakes in the past created the motivation for murder, to the failures both inherent in a free society and developed in a psychology of denial, as well as nature of our country (both good and bad) when we are dealt a vicious blow by a relentless enemy.

In the telling of the story of that day, many questions were raised (and are raised still). In a discussion on the attack the other day, I found I didn't have all the explanation and verification as to why, once the attack began with the hijacking, we were unable to stop it (although I knew the psychological underpinnings and the general story). So I leaped to my search bar and unleashed the power of Google.

In the process, I came across some nice myth debunking sites: - Site with debunking for a few things besides 9/11 (like Obama's birth certificate). - This site builds on the articles over on Wikipedia; as well, the site founder has edited the 9/11 articles to Featured status on Wikipedia.

But the crown jewel is a look into NORAD's role in this Vanity Fair article. It even includes audio from the actual conversations on that day. I missed it when it was published in 2006. Two years later, it settles any lingering questions in my mind on the military's role in trying, and ultimately failing, to stop the attacks.

Mis-Education by those who seek "Truth" - 2006 is important in 9/11 history, because this is the year that the "truther" movement really got it's tinfoil hat on. I'm not really going to get into discussing their insipid bullshit, because their fuckwad theories require the following belief:

Significant elements in the military and government either allowed or arranged the attacks for either financial gain (oil) or for military conquest, or both.

Now, while I distrust the government on many things, one thing that no sane person can believe, even in the face of the evidence out there is that our government would publicly kill 3000 people and get away with it with no evidence (except fabricated truther bullshit). To suggest otherwise requires not only delusions, but a hateful distrust of humanity and a loathing of America itself.

I bring these bastards up because I ended up on Youtube doing the above search. And I made the mistake of watching their lies and horribly edited videos. But on the plus side, there are videos like this:


Name: Soapboxgod said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dmarks said...

Did Van Jones write the above comment? Looks like the usual pile of nuttery.

Patrick M said...

Soapster: Have you tried Google?

Sorry, I'm getting zero tolerance today.

Dmarks: I agree.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

It's said there's no such thing as a dumb question. There are only dumb answers.

I could accept a dumb answer. Unfortunately neither one of you even bothered to offer that.

You merely shrugged it off as nuttery and that is something for which zero tolerance truly ought to be reserved for.

Patrick M said...

Soapster: I shrug it off because you mix legit questions (which my links do address) with truther bullshit. And the prevalence of that shit out there both infects the minds of otherwise rational people and disrespects those who died.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

I beg to differ. Rational people want to know things. They want to find answers to questions. And the surest way to respect the dead is to pursue answers to questions that no-one is willing to answer.

If I get around to it, I'll check the links.

dmarks said...

Patrick: The lies of the "truthers" which Soapy sprinkled out there will keep lingering for a while, like all of the mythical nonexistent Kennedy shooters.

Not because there is any truth to it, but because incidents like these are so big our minds, that we spend a lot of time thinking about them. And sometimes pure imagination creeps in.

And yes, there's such a thing as dumb questions.

Toad734 said...

Wow, did you just write a non-partisan post?

Nice Youtube video too! I like that one.

Here is another great article debunking some of the conspiracy theories; I unleashed this one on my brother but now he still thinks Dick Cheney had a remote control and flew the planes into the buildings.

Easy shit like camera speed at the pentagon explains shit in a way dumbasses can't understand.

Now, like 12/7/41, was there knowledge of the attacks before hand and were they ignored by the administrations in order to get what they wanted?? That could certainly be possible. I mean, the August Memo clearly states that Bin Laden was planning to hijack planes. Miraculously, all our aircraft carriers were absent from Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th, and because we still had those, is why we were able to win in the Pacific. The submarine we sunk in the harbor, the radar detection of the Japanese planes,etc. all point to a conclusion that we knew it was going to happen...At least someone did. Put that with the August memo, Arabs learning to fly jet liners but not concerned about landing them, the fact that the day of 9/11 the Administration got Bin Ladens family out of the United States, etc. All make you wonder what these guys really knew. And if they didn't know, they you could certainly say they were negligent.

The thing is, I don't know what's worse, living in an age where no one would ever question the government such as the Japanese bombing or an age where everything that happens can be linked to the big bad evil government conspiracy somehow. I think both are just as dangerous but asking the question, assuming there is evidence, is not.

Patrick M said...

Dmarks: I do have to disagree. There are no dumb questions, just dumb people. There's also the challenge of trying to find facts when people want to tell you the "truth." In that, even the best and brightest of us can fall victim to bullshittery.

It's that ability to twist language that fuels the truthers, the birthers, and the rest of the tinfoil brigade. It's what passes for "civil" discourse in Washington. And it's something I'm going to get into on Monday.

dmarks said...

Toad: "Here is another great article debunking some of the conspiracy theories; I unleashed this one on my brother but now he still thinks Dick Cheney had a remote control and flew the planes into the buildings."

That's kind of close to my image of the ravings of the "truther" blithering idiots: that they imagine Dick Cheney was sitting somewhere with one of those dynamite plungers like you see the Coyote use in the Road Runner cartoons.

"but asking the question, assuming there is evidence, is not."

These guys ask without evidence.

Patrick: OK....

Patrick M said...

Toad: First of all, I can't believe I deleted a comment from the Soapster and not you on a day like this (though you came close).

Here's where I differ with you on Dec 7. We are masters at forgetting history, because 9/11 was the same situation. We knew there was an enemy out there that could attack us. We just didn't assume it would turn into what it did. And those that were putting the pieces together were marginalized for that reason. It's human nature itself.

As for questioning, I have no problem with it up to the point that the situation is clearly set out by independent facts. Beyond that, it devolves into conspiracy.

ScottyBoy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Shaw Kenawe said...

Dear Patrick,

This is to alert you to a fraud who is posting here using someone else's name and facebook page.

He or she is posting comments under the name ScottyBoy here and over at my blog.

I did a little digging, and actually contacted the REAL dj scottyboy to check the commenter out. Here is the REAL ScottyBoy's answer to my email:

Thats not me. Sorry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaw Kenawe

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:27:07
Subject: Name Fraud

Dear dj ScottyBoy,

I have a political blog called Progressive Eruptions. Today, 9/11/09, someone used your name and linked to your facebook page while leaving a comment. If you really are the person who did this, you can reply to this email and let me know for sure.

Otherwise, I'm letting you know that people are stealing your name and facebook page and using it to comment on political blogs on the internet.

Here is the comment page where you, or someone using your identiy, left a comment:

Scroll down to where you see your name which links to your facebook page.

Earlier this week, some other conservative bloggers came to my blog and posted comments that THEY PLAGIARIZED from other people's blogs and passed them off as their own comment and blog posts (that was Bits by Bob who did this, then when caught, shut down his blog).

I find it the height of deceit and underhandedness to steal not only other people's ideas and posts, but now you and I have this person using dj scottyboy's name and even linking to his facebook instead of having the cajones to use his (or her) own name and link.

The enormously hysterical part is that the fraud here "ScottyBoy" answered someone's comment about watching someone's lies. And then the liar compares that to Obama?

ScottyBoy the Fraud is a liar and a cheat, who hasn't the courage to use his own made-up name and identity, so he stole someone else's and posts under it.

Nice guy. Makes you wonder what kind of creep he is in his personal life.

Toad734 said...


Yes we knew it was possible but it is also possible that "we" knew when and where. There are no hard facts that suggest this to be 100% true but there are very intriguing coincidences that support the theory that both of these events were allowed to happen. To the contrary, there is no evidence to suggest that either were inside jobs...None! There's a reason Loose Change is on its like 4th version...everytime something of theirs gets debunked they have to make up something else.

Shaw Kenawe said...


I just received another email from the real ScottyBoy and he is asking that the posts using his name be removed. I'm going to do it at my blog, and I hope you'll respect this guy, whose name and facebook page was stolen by the fraud here.

I will send you the original email so you can see how upset he is that someone is doing this.

"DJ Scotty Boy - Las Vegas"
Add sender to Contacts
i dont know why someone is using my name but can you please remove it?

DJ Scotty Boy

Rehab / Body English & Palms | Las Vegas
Wild 94.9-FM | San Francisco
Channel 104.9-FM | San Jose
Party 93.1-FM | Las Vegas
Area Resident | Sirius XM
Billboard Dance Club Chart Reporter


Booking & Management:
* Voted #5 DJ In America 2008 & 2009 By DJ Times Magazine |

TAO said...

We can look at Pearl Harbor and a 9/11 from the benefit of hindsight and sayd, "Conspiracy" but realistically have you ever been inside an organization and notice how much information floats around and never seems to get matched up with anything else that is similar?

Good Lord, just in my company I marvel (that is after I have gotten totally pissed off) at how many people can know so much and yet never share any information with each other...

Hoarding information seems to give people a sense of power inside a bureaucracy but acting upon it is alien to a bureaucracy...

I had a receptionist once who got 7 calls from a customer within an hour and the person they asked for was sick that day. She took the messages, she was very polite but not once did it dawn on her that the customer call seven times, maybe there was a problem, maybe I should see what I can do, maybe I should have someone else follow up on this...

NOW it looks obvious but at the time it was just another day of customers calling...

Ah, Soapy, It might help to "If I get around to it, I'll check the links." before going off and asking your own homework rather than throwing out questions and expecting someone else to give you the answers...

Rather liberal of you don't you think? You little moocher you....

dmarks said...

Tao: That is a nice reality-based comment!

Patrick M said...

Shaw: thanks for the heads up on shitty-boy.

I'll get around to the rest of the comments later

TAO said...


I guess when I say something that even you acknowledge as 'reality-based' that I should be appreciative...

I on the other hand find most of my comments to be 'reality based' and as such I can only believe that you do not! :)

dmarks said...

Tao: Well, we are all sounding reality-based here, except for someone who put some imaginary "questions" into comments on this tribute post.

TAO said...

Actually dmarks, I find it all humorous...while it is easy to debunk conspiracy theories in regards to Pearl Harbor and or 9/11 we still have people who believe that Obama represents some leftist conspiracy to usurp their personal freedoms and replace capitalism with socialism in this country...

Look at healthcare reform...nothing socialistic about it unless guaranteeing insurance carriers profits and opening new markets for them (the insured) is socialism...

Name: Soapboxgod said...

Nice try TAO. I wasn't expecting anyone else to get the answers for me only to respond to the questions being asked.

dmarks said...

Tao: There is something socialist about it if the "public option" is kept and if the public option competes (by virtue of being funded by bottomless deficits and largley wipes out popularly-controlled (private sector) healthcare so all we have left pretty much is government-run healthcare.

As for a "conspiracy" about Obama, he makes no secret that he is leftist, and his agenda generally does reduce personal freedoms while increasing the power of ruling elites. That is a step toward socialism. Quite undeniable. However, it is nothing secret. The Democrats openly campaign on "push to the left, less power for the people, more power for the government" almost universally. And pointing out these facts is not the same as saying "Obama is a Communist".

Note the two big "ifs".

As for your summary of healthcare reform, last time I heard, the healthcare reform does not open new markets for "the insured". This is a big part of a GOP reform proposals, where insurance carriers would be able to compete across state lines. If this were allowed, they would keep each other "honest".

TAO said...


I bet the same insurance companies that are available in Michigan are also available in Kentucky....if each insurance carrier could only compete in one state then wouldn't we have like at least 50 insurance carrier and not around 7?

If insurance carriers were limited by state boundaries then how can I as an employer get a quote from one carrier that covers my employees in Kentucky, those that live in Tennessee and my sales reps who live all over the country? Now different states have different requirements for insurance carriers to sell products in their state but that does NOT stop insurance carriers from selling accross statelines it just means they have to meet the requirements of that market.

By mandating that everyone HAS to have insurance then we do have the government creating new markets for them...

BUT you need to quit covering up the truth by claiming that a public option will give us government run healthcare...because the public option is INSURANCE and not healthcare: insurance companies do not treat and or prescribe they just set up hoops for the patient to jump through and if the patient does well then they pay the bill...

Now, explain to me how private sector healthcare is 'popularly controlled?' NOT THEORY EITHER BUT FACT...private sector is actually controlling the public! COBRA and HIPPAA did not originate in the free market but rather by government fiat.

If you do not understand the controlling aspect of health insurance then go to a doctor and tell them that you are paying cash...its a great experiment and I have done it three times in the last month...

dmarks said...

Last time I checked, BCBS of Mi is just in this state.

This page has some good points about competition, and how states quash it now:

"By mandating that everyone HAS to have insurance then we do have the government creating new markets for them..."

This mandate is pure government bullying, especially the part where the government punishes individuals who choose not to get insurance (and that is part of HR 3200). That provision gets insurance companies more business, but robs families. I guess I am the only one who finds this to be bad here.

Your argument that government-controlled insurance is not government controlled healthcare was not that strong. Since the government ends up controlling the purse strings of the money that goes into health care.

I already pay cash to my dentist.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

Don't we mandate that everyone has to have automobile insurance, with certain minimum coverage levels?

I'm just askin.

dmarks said...

And in the real world, a whole lot of people go without it. I have no idea of the percentage, though.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

"Don't we mandate that everyone has to have automobile insurance, with certain minimum coverage levels?"

Yes we do mandate that everyone carry automobile insurance. But ya know what???

A)Not everyone does; and

B)While indeed a public benefit, we're not subsidizing their automobile insurance.

Patrick M said...

Also, on the insurance, we're mandating coverage to protect others rights when hit by someone who doesn't have cash.

dmarks said...

Yes. Patrick. And the more we think about it, the more we realize that the auto insurance analogy is complete apples and oranges.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

The point I was making is that there are laws in place for people to carry automobile insurance, with certain minimum coverages.

Those who don't, and there are many, are in violation of the law.

And as a result, insurance companies' premiums go up. Why is that? Because if someone with no insurance hits you, your insurance eats it. And in order to mitigate that increased outlay, they have to increase prices across the board.

Same thing happens when people don't have medical insurance. Emergent care eats the cost, which ultimately falls back onto taxpayers (you don't think the hospital just doesn't get paid, do you?) and increases the cost of healthcare across the board. This trickles down onto health insurance companies, who increase premiums to offset the increased cost.

It all boils back down to the uninsured putting a burden on the system.

Keep up next time.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

And neither does having a public option dissolve the taxpayer of this burden contrary to the president's assertions to the contrary.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

If everyone's insured, there's no burden of unpaid costs.

And right now, I can neither afford nor qualify for insurance. I have no options. I sure as shit would like one.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

There's no such thing as a free lunch Saty.

As for your options, I won't deny you one provided you'll grant me the same courtesy of not having to provide, not only for my own well being but yours as well. Because you see, I can afford my insurance. What I cannot afford and what I am not willing to be subjected to is some false altruistic notion that I have some sort of moral obligation to see to it that you do.

It is something in today's society for those of the collectivist persuasion to chalk their utopian wishes up with some sense "moral obligation" while at the same time all too conveniently dismissing that there is nothing moral about denying an individual a right to their freedom and economic liberty.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

You're already paying for my well being, Soap.

If I end up having to go to the ER, you're going to pay for it. In spades, because the entire cost will be shunted directly onto the community, onto existing healthcare costs, and onto insurance providers.

The cost of my care will ultimately result in your premiums going up.

So you're going to pay. You're paying now. Like it or not.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

I am well aware that I'm paying for it now just as I'm well aware that even with Barack Obama as President on "Change" we've still got someone in the White House that advocates and endorses corporatism and a command and control economy; just as I'm aware that despite celebrating 8 years of safety from a domestic terrorist attack neither political party in this country has done shit to control the border and the scores of individuals flooding into it; just as I'm aware that government spending can't pull us out of a recession and that if that were the case, Eastern Europe wouldn't quite the demise that it presently is (oh granted they've all got their healthcare rights but let us never mind that a washer and dryer be a luxury item); just as I'm aware of the fact that gold continues to increase all at the same time that Congress is set to raise the debt ceiling to $13 Trillion dollars and the publicly held debt will be $17 Trillion by 2019 [thus consuming about 80% of our Nation's GDP]; just as I'm aware of a whole host of shit that are all antithetical to what it truly means to live under the doctrine of which this free society was founded.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

That sure was a whole lot of words for not saying much of anything at all.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

You're a good little comrade aren't you Saty? Don't think. Just follow.

Satyavati devi dasi said...

Fuck you, Soapy :*

Like I've been telling Patrick: the people who actually know about healthcare, the ones who actually know firsthand about the system (as opposed to those who read-and-believe the propaganda about it), support the public option. These are not people who stand to benefit some way by this or who profit by this-I'm talking about people like nurses, and groups like the American Diabetes Association.

It's people who don't know anything but the bullshit they've been fed, and who don't care beyond their own four walls who go on pitching fits about it.

Meanwhile, in several states in this Great and Glorious Nation of ours, including the Motherland of North Carolina, being a victim of domestic violence is considered a 'pre existing condition', and will get you either disqualified for insurance or forced to pay grossly elevated rates if you can find someone to insure you.... thus punishing you for something that was not your fault to begin with.

This is the free-market, American way, right?