Monday, September 15, 2008

The Sarah Bounce

(Note: any link to video that relates to the post title in a literal way would be appreciated, because I really am a perv sometimes. That explains the yummilicious fake cover on the right.)

The dynamic of the race for President changed here, in the great state of Ohio, and all around the country when John McCain shocked the shit out of liberals and conservatives alike by announcing his pick for vice president was the governor of Alaska, Sarah Louise Heath Palin. Now I've let a detailed examination of the governor and her record to those who have the time to research more, as well as those who like to fling shit at the pipeline and hope it sticks.

The liberal bloggers have been damn near apoplectic. From defending their main man and messiah by comparing him to the VP to outright lies and bullshit to stuff that, if in print form, could be used to wipe your ass after a beer and hot wings night, the comments run the gamut, from reasoned to hella-hillarious (mostly the latter). But that's normal. You get that kind of garbage to varying degrees on both sides.

Mary Mitchell, a columnist at the Chicago Scum Times came in with a gem of an article entitled, Palin should be laughingstock to all feminists. It begins thus:
Sarah Palin makes me sick. I hate that she was able to steal Barack Obama's mojo just by showing up wearing rimless glasses and a skirt.
The celebrity reactions are also predictable and humorous. PETA boob job Pam Anderson can't stand her, saying "[Sarah] can suck it." Charming. Other celebutards blather on, like Matt Damon wondering if she believes dinosaurs were walking around 4,000 years ago, being all creationist and shit. And former Murphy Brown" star Candice Bergen, who got into a dustup with former VP Dan Quayle over her onscreen single motherhood years ago, also weighed in with her depth of intellect, commenting, "I heard her speech and it's scary." I'm sure I could find more idiocy, but I don't want to Google no more, and you get the ideer.

But to the point: We have four people in this race with uniquely American stories. John McCain is a war hero from a military family who endured years of torture as a POW. Barack Obama was a mixed race child, product of a shatterd home, who pulled himself up and is one election away from the highest office in the land. Joe Biden came from average beginnings in an average town, faced a terrible tragedy just after being elected to office, became a single parent, and commuted for hours every day to serve both his family and the public. And we have Sarah, who hunts, raises five kids, and comes from about as far into the boondocks as you can get to a position where she is one election away from making history.

However, three of these people are aloof from the red states in some way. John McCain married into an assload of money and has been in Washington for decades. Joe Biden has been in Washington even longer than that. And Barack Obama is a Harvard graduate with a taste for Chicago politics. And all three of these people are currently senators. While they may be approachable in reality, there seems to be a distance when viewed from the confines of flyover country.

This is where we see the difference in Sarah. She's not of Washington. I think she's been there. So have I. But she's lived a life in the wilderness. She's shot and field dressed her own wild game. She's juggling kids and chaos on a daily basis. She's probably gotten her hands dirty working on something that involves manual labor some time this year. You could imagine her sitting in a diner in a t-shirt, drinking Coke and eating pizza, and she wouldn't look out of place (the pic, taken in Kuwait during her visit there, bears that out.. Yum-o). She's straightforward in manner and young and energetic. She is the antithesis of liberal perceptions of an independent feminist.

And while there are questions and answers that need to be given concerning her policy and political ideas, it's the perception of the kind of person that she is that has finally energized the conservative base. Because, unlike even Ronald Reagan, we feel she is one of us.

And if you doubt the wisdom of me, all you need to do is look at the polls. That's the Palin bounce in action:

24 comments:

Shaw Hussein Kenawe said...

This is where we see the difference in Sarah. She's not of Washington. I think she's been there. So have I. But she's lived a life in the wilderness. She's shot and field dressed her own wild game.

This is not a qualification for a potential leader of the free world. A grasp of foreign policy and a working knowledge of other countries and their leaders is. Let's see Sarah tell Putin or Iran's Ahmadinajad during delicate negotiations that she can field dress a moose. You can't be serious about this nonsense.


She's juggling kids and chaos on a daily basis. She's probably gotten her hands dirty working on something that involves manual labor some time this year. You could imagine her sitting in a diner in a t-shirt, drinking Coke and eating pizza, and she wouldn't look out of place.

I know at least 6 dozen women who are juggling career and children and at least one of those women helped construct an addition to her home. So? You're out of your mind here if you seriously think those are qualifications for dealing with complex foreign issues and economic polices. Seriously. Drinking coke and eating pizza, BTW, is not on my list of qualifications a man or woman MUST exhibit to show he or she is ready to be president of the US (remember? McCain said he would take that decision very, very seriously. He met her ONCE. ONCE.) I wouldn't hire a doctor to operate on my body after meeting him or her only once, would you? Do you choose your doctors, lawyers, college prfessors y'know people who have an actual impact on your life with only one meeting? And are your qualifications limited to the quaint downhome nonsense that any of these people could have a coke and pizza with you?

She's straightforward in manner and young and energetic. She is the antithesis of liberal perceptions of an independent feminist.

Straightforward? She's been proven to be dishonest and deceitful. The Bridge to Nowhere. Pork for her state. Allowing her people to say she's been to Ireland and Iraq. In favor of book banning (hello fascism) in favor of teaching a Bible story in public schools?

She's the antithesis of everything I believe a public servant should be:

Deeply informed on a wide scope of national and international issues and honest.

But I'll let Andrew Sullivan finish for me:

She keeps repeating as a defining political motif that she said: “Thanks, but no thanks for the Bridge to Nowhere.” But we now know that she originally lobbied for the bridge in Alaska paid for by federal funds. And she never returned the money. And she even wore a “Nowhere, Alaska” sweatshirt to push back against the McCains of this world who derided the bridge as a pointless boondoggle.

She says she’s against pork-barrel spending, and this was partly why McCain picked her. McCain’s signature issue, after all, is his disdain of pork. Here’s one of McCain’s oldest jokes: “We’re not going to spend $3m of your tax dollars to study the DNA of bears in Montana,” he said earlier this year, citing Montana’s request for federal money to study the endangered grizzly bear. “I don’t know if it was a paternity issue or criminal, but it was a waste of money.”

Here’s what Politico.com revealed about Palin’s time as Alaska governor: “According to a ‘summary of requests for federal appropriations’ posted to her budget office’s website earlier this year, Palin requested millions of federal dollars for everything from improving recreational halibut fishing to studying the mating habits of crabs and the DNA of harbour seals.”

She boasts that she secured a new oil pipeline for Alaska, but closer inspection finds that nothing has even begun to be built, and that the state may end up owing billions if the pipeline is never constructed.

She says she’s a fiscal conservative, but as mayor she increased her tiny town’s debt service by 69%. When she took office, the town of Wasilla had no long-term debt. By the time her term was over, the debt amounted to $3,000 per citizen.

She is the biggest joke to be put on a ticket in national politics. The most accurate thing said about her in the past two weeks was said on the day she was picked. It was said by Alaska’s Republican state senate president, Lyda Green: “She’s not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice-president or president? Look at what she’s done to this state. What would she do to the nation?”

My Files said...

The Sarah Bounce?
It's a wonder that Obama has even gotten as far as he has.
Where is his expericance and why is HE qualified?

Palin is MORE qualified than Obama and she is being ATTACKED by the Liberal Fascists that make up America's mostly liberal MSM wolfpack press. Has anyone ever seen our wolfpack press is such a frenzy since John McCain make her is choice for veep?
Obama has zero Executive exerience and as far a Biden he comes from a "tiny" state, Delware. Both Obama and Biden have engaged in plagiarism. Obama was caught repeating parts of a speech that the Governor of Massachusetts gave. Obama didn't attribute his speech to the Governor as he should have and thus this is "plagiarism", period. Whether the Governor of Mass. says it was ok or not, afterwards.
Bottom line here folks is Obama remains a "mystery man" because the folks that are "generating" the attack stories on Palin REFUSE to investigate and report on Obama dealings. Especially the purchase of his home with the help of that convicted felon. Americans don't trust our "free left-wing" press anymore, except for the ones they have contaminated, and that's just the facts folks.....the sad facts.
I would like MORE answers from Obama, not from Palin.

Beth said...

We keep comparing Palin to Obama (which in and of itself is sad considering Obama is the top spot and Palin the VP spot) but what about comparing apples to apples, Palin to Bill Clinton. Both governors, right? So, what foreign experience did Bill Clinton have prior to running for president? And oh yeah, look we're comparing a VP to the top spot, again!

shaw kenawe said...

Bottom line here folks is Obama remains a "mystery man" because the folks that are "generating" the attack stories on Palin REFUSE to investigate and report on Obama dealings.

You're not a serious person. Obama has been under microscopic investigation since he announced his run for the presidency. He's no more a mystery than is McCain. It is Palin who's the mystery. No one, other than the people in Alaska, knew who she was 3 weeks ago. NO ONE.

Finding out the deceptions Palin has foisted upon the public is part of the vetting process that McCain obviously did not do. It's not "generating" when public records show that she inflates her meager experience as the mayor of a tiny backwater town that employed 60 people. And most of the town's business was conducted by a commission, not her. Why don't you educate yourself and look at the facts.

Put her next to Biden in a real debate on foreign policy, economic issues and see who is more qualified to be VP.

What a joke.

Beth said...

Shaw, what about Bill Clinton's experience prior to his election as president compared to Palin's?

shaw kenawe said...

beth, I don't know what relevance Bill Clinton's experience compared with Palin's is, but since you brought it up, let's start with his education (rather important, wouldn't you say, for the most powerful position on the planet?)

With the aid of scholarships, Clinton attended the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., receiving a Bachelor of Science in Foreign Service (B.S.F.S.) degree in 1968.

He spent the summer of 1967, the summer before his senior year, working as an intern for Arkansas Senator J. William Fulbright. While in college he became a brother of Alpha Phi Omega and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa.

He is a member of Kappa Kappa Psi's National Honorary Band Fraternity, Inc.

Upon graduation he won a Rhodes Scholarship to University College, Oxford where he studied Government.
After Oxford, Clinton attended Yale Law School and obtained a Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree in 1973.

Sarah Palin's education:

In 1982, Palin enrolled at Hawaii Pacific College, but left after her first semester, transferring in 1983 to North Idaho College and then to the University of Idaho. She attended Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska for one term, returning to the University of Idaho to complete her Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, graduating in 1987.

Bill Clinton's executive experience:

After graduating from Yale Law School, Clinton returned to Arkansas and became a professor at the University of Arkansas. A year later, he ran for the House of Representatives in 1974. The incumbent, John Paul Hammerschmidt, defeated Clinton by a 52% to 48% margin. Without opposition in the general election, Clinton was elected Arkansas Attorney General in 1976.


Clinton was elected Governor of Arkansas in 1978, making him the youngest governor in the country at age thirty-two. Clinton lost reelection in 1980.In 1982, Clinton was again elected governor and kept his job for ten years. He helped Arkansas transform its economy and significantly improve the state's educational system.

Sarah Palin's executive experience.

Palin served two terms (1996–2002) as mayor of Wasilla. At the conclusion of Palin's tenure as mayor in 2002, the town had about 6,300 residents, an 60 town employees. as mayor she increased her tiny town’s debt service by 69%. When she took office, the town of Wasilla had no long-term debt. By the time her term was over, the debt amounted to $3,000 per citizen.

In 2006, running on a clean-government platform, Palin defeated Frank Murkowski in the Republican gubernatorial primary.

According to a ‘summary of requests for federal appropriations’ posted to her budget office’s website earlier this year, Palin requested millions of federal dollars for everything from improving recreational halibut fishing to studying the mating habits of crabs and the DNA of harbour seals.”

She boasts that she secured a new oil pipeline for Alaska, but closer inspection finds that nothing has even begun to be built, and that the state may end up owing billions if the pipeline is never constructed.

Toad734 said...

Great, she believes in the creation story, eats McDonalds, shops at Wal-Mart, kills things for entertainment and doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is. Yep, sounds like an average American but do you think George Washington, JFK, Lincoln and John Adams were your average mouth breathing Americans? If we want to have a beer with someone like us we should all just go to the bar around the corner, not go to the White House to do it. If I thought it was a good idea for to vote for the moron in front of me who can't figure out how to use his turn signal or that green means go, I would vote for him and not someone who was a self made Harvard Graduate who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago.

I want my president to be elite. Bush has taught me that much.

Beth said...

Why I bring up Bill Clinton is that he was a governor elected president (as was Reagan and Bush 43) and nobody questioned their ability to be president. Matter of fact, JFK was the last Senator to win the presidency. Maybe because people see executive experience being valuable, or Senators being too embroiled in Washington politics, who knows, but I think that fact is telling.

So, then back to why is everyone questioning Palin as a VP (not even the presidential candidate)? That is what I don't get!

Clinton getting lots of education doesn't impress me for being prepared to be Commander in Chief anymore than being mayor impress you.

When Clinton was elected, I prayed he would surround himself with good people to help him lead. He did a pretty good job at that. Even if McCain wins, I will pray the same prayer, because our security is important always to me. But still, we are comparing a VP nominee to people who ran for president and were president for 8 years. It's crazy that you all are putting so much effort into impaling Palin (or for people like Patrick putting her up on a pedestal - she's not as great as he makes her to be but she ain't as bad as you and Toad make her to be.)

Dave Miller said...

Actually Beth, the GOP was rabid in their attacks on Clinton in the 1992 elections. They said he had no experience as Governor to be president.

I am sure the reason behind this was the amount of experience Bush the Elder had.

The facts are that Clinton had much more experience going in than Palin will, if she is elected. And the facts are that the GOP said he did not have enough experience to be president.

Now that level of experience may not matter, but please, at least be honest as some in the GOP are unable to do.

Her level of experience is at or below many others, [Clinton and Keane specifically] the GOP has called unqualified. By their own past standards, she too is unqualified.

Beth said...

Dave, we're still comparing the VP choice in 2008 to the President choice in 1992. And if the right is hypocritical ,then the left is also for thinking Clinton had relevant experience to deal with foreign matters but that Palin does not, agreed?

shaw kenawe said...

Clinton getting lots of education doesn't impress me for being prepared to be Commander in Chief anymore than being mayor impress you.

This is an incongruous statement if I ever heard one.

How many mothers and fathers work their fingers to the bone to see that their sons and daughers receive the best education they can give them? How much of a premium do we put on education in this country?

Wouldn't you be proud to have a child of yours graduate with the sort of honors Clinton or Obama had from the schools they attended? I know I would. It's the American dream.

But here you dismiss Clinton's, or anyone's I would imagine, achievements--and I'm guessing because they make Palin's look less impressive by comparison.

You and those who denigrate high achievement in education contribute to keeping America stupid. Keep saying you're not impressed with education and then pass it on to your children--it's the best path to becoming a second-rate country.

PS. Don't you think that great Commanders in Chief need to have the best of educations or do you believe a mediocre education will produce a great man or woman?

I put my trust in knowledge.

Beth said...

Being book smart does not make one infallible, nor necessarily a great leader. Education is important, yes, but still doesn't equal experience, and isn't experience what everyone is worried about?

And why Shaw do you ignore that we are comparing a VP choice to a presidental choice? It's so easy to cry about being a heartbeat away while ignoring that Obama isn't a heartbeat away, he'd be right there from day 1!

Patrick M said...

Shaw: Do you remember whwn I wrote, "The liberal bloggers have been damn near apoplectic."? The fact that you wrote as much as I wrote and missed the point of the whole damned argument says enough.

My point was the differences of background between Sarah and the three Washington mooks (McCain included) that are in this race and why she has an instinctive appeal to many of us who don't live in cities or on coasts.

It's kind of like the early days of Obamamania in a way, where people haven't examined everything yet. Although, unlike someone who votes "present" to hide his leanings, I'm pretty certain I know, in general, where Sarah is coming from.

I never stated I was out to list all her qualifications. If you want those, there are other bloggers with which you can rage.

And I can't wait for the Palin/Biden debate! Beauty and the Beast(ly gaffe machine).

Files: Welcome to the insanity.

I would like MORE answers from Obama, not from Palin.

We need more answers from both. Even with my desire to see Sarah in the White House, there are still many things Gov. Palin needs to answer and clarify. And that means she has to get into it with the liberals on the 3 Obama networks. That's how you separate the leaders from the messiahs.

Beth: Prior to being elected, Clinton had breakfast at the International House of Pancakes. So THERE!!!!

And for some reason, Shaw thinks an Ivy League education as a lawyer will impress us. After four years of learning very little, I figured out that, while specific training in a specific field is a good thing, sometimes the only things a sheepskin is good for are proving you can regurgitate things to get good grades (or give head) and wiping your ass when you run out of tp.

Toad: I'm not even going to waste that much space:

I want my president to be elite.

Are we talking about our "ruling class" again? I think we've had enough of them: Washington insiders, career politicians, legacies. That describes the last 20 years of candidates and presidents for the most part.

Dave: You're too smart to be a liberal. But you are right about the flinging of the experience card. One clarification: McCain is the one on top of the ticket. I'm pretty certain any lack Sarah has can be remedied in office, un less McCain takes the WH Harrison route and dies his first month in office.

And in politics, hypocrisy is only hypocrisy if the other party catches you doing it.

Shaw, Beth: One additional thing on the education front. Check out Sarah's sheepskin compared with the education of Democrat Andrew Jackson and Republican Abraham Lincoln. Education is not a function of collecting alphabet soup behind your name, but application of your faculties to produce thought and idea. However, it does take a decent amount of that to drag yourself through an ivy league school. But the ivy league can produce idiots too. Look at the Senate for proof of that.

shaw kenawe said...

Education is important, yes, but still doesn't equal experience, and isn't experience what everyone is worried about?

Judgment is more important that experience. The best attributes in a candidate would be judgment informed by a first-rate education, a curiosity about the wider world, and the ability to attract bright people to your administration--people who have the courage to tell you what you don't want to hear. In other words, exactly what George Bush was not and what he did not have in his administration.

George Bush was the Governor of Texas--what good did it do him? He made one blunder after another and now has the dubious honor of being the most disliked president in post WWII history.

It's so easy to cry about being a heartbeat away while ignoring that Obama isn't a heartbeat away, he'd be right there from day 1!

Obama has already demonstrated his judgment, intelligence, and ability to lead. He's more experienced that Abraham Lincoln was when he was elected president at the most perilous time in this country's history.

McCain has chosen as his VP, someone who's supposed to be ready to take over the presidency at a moment's notice, a woman who had never been off the North American continent until last year, who has never met a head of state, and who had very little executive responsibility as the mayor of Wasilla--and has been governor of Alaska for less than 2 years.

We know nothing about what she knows, since her handlers have not allowed her to meet the press in an unscripted environment.

She's the ONLY candidate who has not had an unscripted press conference where she would have to anwer questions on her own.

Why do you suppose that is?

I know why, and so do people who don't fool themselves with weak excuses for her.

shaw kenawe said...

Check out Sarah's sheepskin compared with the education of Democrat Andrew Jackson and Republican Abraham Lincoln.

Holy crap! You're comparing the educational opportunities of the 20th century with those of 19th century America?! There were no colleges and universities where Lincoln lived in those days, plus a young man was mostly indentured to his parents until he was 21, that and many, many reasons for Lincoln and Jackson not having attended university. (Lincoln was one of our most brilliant president's, btw, like Obama, he wrote his own speeches)--Lincoln educated himself, read the law and was admitted into the Bar. One could do that in the 19th century.

Lincoln was what a rightwinger would call an "elitist." He read Shakespeare, Plato, Greek drama, as well as attended the theater every chance he got. He was highly educated--an elitist of the first order.

What is appalling about Palin is that she isn't self-reflective, that she doesn't know that she knows so little of the big wide world that she wants to play in.

Beth said...

Shaw, in your very first comment here you stated the qualifications that are important to you in a candidate:

"Deeply informed on a wide scope of national and international issues and honest."

Well, politicians as a whole are not the most honest bunch, so to find someone who is totally honest is impossible. Maybe straightforward is a better quality to expect.

As for being deeply informed, they have advisors and committees for that, so I think you need a good basic knowledge with the ability to process a lot of knowledge quickly and be able to be decisive is more important. So, yes, intelligence does matter.

I will also give you that judgment is critical, too.

Now, I must say I personally don't think Palin is ready to be POTUS right now, but it sure is fun seeing the libs wet themselves worrying about her. And I think it hypocritical to think Bill Clinton had foreign policy experience prior to being president.

Looking ahead, I hope Palin will be an asset to the Republican party and be the rising star who could become president someday.

Patrick M said...

Shaw: Sometimes knowledge is good, but Wikipedia is better. And since you want to play dueling stats:

He's more experienced that Abraham Lincoln was when he was elected president...

Let's see, he started off transporting goods by flatboat, served as a captain of a militia during the Black Hawk War (I'll read about that next), ran a store for a bit, then was elected to 4 terms in the Illinois House. During that time, he taught himself law and was admitted to the bar.

Lincoln had 1 term in the US House. After that, he went on to actually work as a lawyer for a decade before being elected. And much of what he did overlapped with his politics, where he did run for office and fail (always a character builder).

Compare that with playing politics from the time a certain messiah stepped out of law school.

You're comparing the educational opportunities of the 20th century with those of 19th century America?!

Yes, because it's a matter of learning things (and because I have the balls to do so) and not an obsession with elitism. And Harvard did exist. That's why I didn't cite John Adams.

My point in all this is that we don't, and shouldn't have an elite ruling class. Sometimes, the best person for the job is not the best resume for the job (speaking as someone with a shitty resume).

I'll use W as an example of this. He's had diverse experience, a sheepskin from Yale, and a legacy politician. His presidency has been a mixed bag. He's been principled (or stubborn) about his foreign policy, solid but bland on social issues, but also grew the government like a crack whore on an ass binge. As someone who voted for him, it was this last thing that was my biggest disappointment. I'm sure you have yours concerning Clinton.

In the end, you simply don't absolutely know until someone is elected whether they'll shine or shit. And if she can answer the tough questions well, and not be hozed by McCain's idiocy, then I'm probably going to end up voting for her (and McCain by default).

She's the ONLY candidate who has not had an unscripted press conference where she would have to anwer questions on her own.

ABC news?

I know why, and so do people who don't fool themselves with weak excuses for her.

Because she hasn't gotten there yet. But unlike you, we'll expect some answers soon. And I surspect I'll be satisfied enough.

Beth: You misunderstand Shaw. She doesn't care what Palin's plusses and minuses are (just look at the diatribe she unleashed on the original post. It's all about sweet Barry, her messiah, the lord Barack Hussein Obama, with whom she shares a soul and a middle name.

(emphasis added for tweaking only)

shaw kenawe said...

Beth: You misunderstand Shaw. She doesn't care what Palin's plusses and minuses are (just look at the diatribe she unleashed on the original post. It's all about sweet Barry, her messiah, the lord Barack Hussein Obama, with whom she shares a soul and a middle name.

Patrick,

You wild, crazy-ass rightwing Palin-lovin' McCain gaggin' partisan, My Man!

You are me! Only on the other side!

You say "Barry's" my Messiah? I say Sarah is your wet dream!

Same diff'!

Just keep in mind, it's McSame who's up against Obama, not your Playmate of the Month.

PS. She's already slipping in the polls.

A firecracker expodes with dazzling pyrotechnics, then fizzles into nothing.

I'm outta here. I had a lot of time today (obvious), but I'm on the road tomorrow.

Later.

PS. You. Are. Something. Else.

Patrick M said...

Shaw: ROTFL

But seriously (sort of), there's a difference. While Sarah may be my wet dream (can't wait for that one), I was quick to clarify that I'm not yet on board the Straight Talk Express. She has to impress me in the national political realm. She has little time to do so. If she becomes McCain Jr, then things may change. I surspect that won't be the end result, though.

I am glad you'll be traveling though. Means I don't have to type as much.

PS. You. Are. Something. Else.

Yeah, I'm just not sure what. I'll let you know win I figger that one out. :)

Toad734 said...

Beth:

And lets compare the outcome of our last Senator turn President to that of our last Governor turn President shall we?

Patrick M said...

Toad: do you mean Kennedy vs Clinton?

Toad734 said...

No,I was talking about Kennedy vs Bush. But if you want to compare Clinton to Bush we can do that too.
Lincoln was also a state senator and Bush was a former Governor and we know how that turned out.

It's not like Obama will not be able to make a decision...give me a break. So Sarah decided to close the Moose crossing on Main Street. I am sure that was a big decision resulting in detrimental consequences. She also lobbied for the bridge to no where and then kept the money when they decided not to build it. That's some great decision making as was trying to fire her sisters husband.

Patrick M said...

Toad: Can't you tell when someone's laughing at you?

Beth said...

The comments that Palin "lied" about the bridge to nowhere is not even true. She said yes to it and then she did say no thanks. So, that means she's a flip-flopper, not a liar.