tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post9221843766711812190..comments2023-07-07T04:02:25.375-04:00Comments on Sane Political Discourse: Aftermath 2008Patrick Mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-8389377121071808362008-11-11T14:49:00.000-05:002008-11-11T14:49:00.000-05:00The system may not be completely and inherently ra...<I>The system may not be completely and inherently racist in policy but it sure is set up for whites to succeed and makes it easy for others to fail.</I><BR/><BR/>Toad, this is absolutely the most asinine (and possibly racist) statement, especially in light of the election of Obama, that you've managed in a while. If you take two people, one white and one black, similar beginning circumstances, and they both work their asses off, who do you think is going to get extra support because of their skin color?<BR/><BR/>You're equating people who have generations of money with people one generation out of systemic discrimination. That's just dumb. If you want to make a remotely fair comparison, compare the Rockefellers to Oprah Winfrey.<BR/><BR/>And for clarification, slave labor wasn't free. You had to feed, clothe, and maintain living accommodations, maintain control, pay bounties, and a whole lot of other expenses. And it was closer to about 250 years, with the last 150 not running on slave labor, and much of that slave money in the South wiped out by the Civil War.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-72976263781738861922008-11-11T13:21:00.000-05:002008-11-11T13:21:00.000-05:00The system may not be completely and inherently ra...The system may not be completely and inherently racist in policy but it sure is set up for whites to succeed and makes it easy for others to fail. Part of that is based on the simple fact that a lot of white people are wealthy or at least well off because their parents were well off, their parents were well off because they had slaves to do all the labor for them. Why do you think America is the richest country in the world? We had free labor for 400 years! That free labor made a lot of people rich, that wealth has been passed down to those white descendents, not the ex slaves.<BR/><BR/>The Rockerfellers are still a very wealthy family even though the first Rockerfeller made it rich 140years ago.Toad734https://www.blogger.com/profile/01450263690181812924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-6123641813232650652008-11-06T09:08:00.000-05:002008-11-06T09:08:00.000-05:00PCC: The only danger is that the GOP won't get ba...PCC: The only danger is that the GOP won't get back to its principles and will keep on the Bush big government conservatism and the McCain-style reaching across the aisle bullshit. That's the reason so many people were disenfranchised.<BR/><BR/>Asshole that CARES!!!!!: Hey, fucko, did you even read the post. The Soapster was simply quoting <B>ME!</B> So if you're calling him a moron, then I guess I fit in the same category.<BR/><BR/>Actually the GOP lost because it forgot to stick to principles. It went careening to the kind of big government bullshit that we expect from Obama.<BR/><BR/>And until bitter fucks like you get over the fact that the process works and the GOP lost, you're never going to win a damn thing. We're not going to take back the House and Senate in two years and defeat Obama in four years if we don't suck it up, get positive, and show the duped (independent Obama voters) what leadership really is.<BR/><BR/>So go back, read the original post in context, and maybe you can come back and find something informed to say.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-71678506940286852362008-11-05T23:52:00.000-05:002008-11-05T23:52:00.000-05:00Mr. Obama wanted the job, he can have it. Soon he'...Mr. Obama wanted the job, he can have it. Soon he'll crawl back to Jeremiah Wright for spiritual guidance because after his first transitional briefing at the White House, Barry will realize he has bitten off way, way, way more than he can chew.<BR/><BR/>After our nation begins teetering on the brink, there will be a new Conservative movement in America as people realize that this sweeping new Liberal/Socialist movement was a bad thing.Pasadena Closet Conservativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837317472523209555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-23979082894019182352008-11-05T23:20:00.000-05:002008-11-05T23:20:00.000-05:00Whoa, this is what I get for spending the day with...Whoa, this is what I get for spending the day with the kids....<BR/><BR/>Tao: <I>...and its time to redefine Conservatism....</I><BR/><BR/>Wrong. It's time for the GOP to come back to conservatism.<BR/><BR/>As for where the GOP needs to go (other than to fuck themselves), I'm sure we'll be talking about that more. <BR/><BR/>Soapster: You think I need more inspiration? Somebody will lose an eye. :)<BR/><BR/>Shaw: You're first comment is well said. As for the crazies, there's bound to be both moonbats and wingnuts trolling to spew venom.<BR/><BR/>Arthur: I ought to delete you for starting to sling around the racist line, but you did give it to someone more ignorant down the line, so...<BR/><BR/>And as for the Black Panthers, you're cracked.<BR/><BR/>Cares: When I have to thank Arthur, then it may be because his target is a little too bitter to be decent. BTW, I'm talking about you.<BR/><BR/>Bullfrog: Amen.<BR/><BR/>James: I'll get to work on that right away. <BR/><BR/>Jeff: For clarification, the black vote is usually mostly Democrat anyway. And there is a difference between voting for race and voting racist. Especially when you have felt the sting of real racism.<BR/><BR/>Snarkle: I always qualify statements until the final numbers are in. I posted this just after midnight. I thought he would be able to claim a mandate, but the numbers weren't firm at that time.<BR/><BR/>Toad: Did I say racism was over? No. I said the excuse of systemic racism without clear evidence is over. There has to be a point at which we stop living in the mindset that the black man gets the shaft because the system is inherently racist. And this election is the clearest signpost for that point.<BR/><BR/>David: If Obama does so, he'll be called on it.<BR/><BR/>Brewhouse: Maybe you should put down the beer....Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-12814267520441754972008-11-05T22:15:00.000-05:002008-11-05T22:15:00.000-05:00No one should get a free pass to violate the basic...<I>No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the <B>President of the United States,</B> We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.<BR/>Do you hear that Mr. Barack Hussein Obama</I>--david<BR/><BR/>What has George Bush done now? He is, afterall, still the president of the US. And why are you warning Barack Hussein Obama about what George Bush did?<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>BrewhouseBob said... <BR/>The luantic fringe has spoketh and America will suffer for eschewing a hero and all around gret man like McCain for the bi racial boy of the moment who the left will savage in due time. The feast best when eating their own.</I><BR/><BR/>Very droll, BrewhouseBob, especially the part where you call the next US president "boy."<BR/><BR/>Patrick, you've attracted some curiously weird new people here.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-61063487054606881562008-11-05T18:51:00.000-05:002008-11-05T18:51:00.000-05:00The luantic fringe has spoketh and America will su...The luantic fringe has spoketh and America will suffer for eschewing a hero and all around gret man like McCain for the bi racial boy of the moment who the left will savage in due time. The feast best when eating their ownAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-49927885551452816472008-11-05T18:46:00.000-05:002008-11-05T18:46:00.000-05:00No one should get a free pass to violate the basic...No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the President of the United States, We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.<BR/>Do you hear that Mr. Barack Hussein ObamaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-84304468831141950852008-11-05T18:31:00.000-05:002008-11-05T18:31:00.000-05:00tao: thanks for stopping by the blog! I can't rem...tao: thanks for stopping by the blog! I can't remember where I got that bit about the number of voters, but I will find it and post it. It was a late night, it's possible I dreamt the whole thing!Bullfroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12019620619450825193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-313083487881192972008-11-05T17:51:00.000-05:002008-11-05T17:51:00.000-05:00Bullfrog, voter turnout is already 12% higher than...Bullfrog, voter turnout is already 12% higher than 2004. In fact this is the highest percentage turnout of registered voters since 1908. Got that information from Fox News and CNN (I do my own fair and balanced thing! :) but Rush is off limits because he is bad for my blood pressure!)TAOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452702225885449029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-30578039554912328682008-11-05T17:14:00.000-05:002008-11-05T17:14:00.000-05:00Racism is far from over. Lets not forget that Obam...Racism is far from over. Lets not forget that Obama is one of the few black people in this country who is not a descendent of a slave. He is also half white.<BR/><BR/>Now, the days of people who refuse to vote for someone based on skin color is apparently over. Although, one has to admit that George Bush was Obama's best ally. Would a white candidate have won even more votes?<BR/><BR/>Its a bit much to say that because a half black guy is elected President that everything is suddenly equal because it is not. The majority of black people in this country were not born with the same opportunities as you and I. The sky is the limit and they can succeed but it is still much harder for them than it is for you.Toad734https://www.blogger.com/profile/01450263690181812924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-13803147812587889342008-11-05T16:20:00.000-05:002008-11-05T16:20:00.000-05:00The 'footage' is sadly incomplete. If one wanted i...The 'footage' is sadly incomplete. If one wanted images of 'Racist Black Panthers' running amok intimidating voters and disrupting an election it's quite a let down. It shows nothing worth getting worked up over.<BR/><BR/>Howard Stern? Why would I care what that guy says about anything? He's a not very interesting entertainer. You can try a similar experiment using the Constitution and Mein Kampf and get interesting views from folks. Some find the Constitution too 'radical' some find Hitler's book quite acceptable. <BR/><BR/>Interestingly a great number of former Black Panthers, SNCC members and black power advocates living here in Seattle have remained involved in community work, education and one, Larry Gossett, holds elected office. Great guy.<BR/><BR/>Cheers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-69268568360803842652008-11-05T16:12:00.000-05:002008-11-05T16:12:00.000-05:00So, you say Obama et al might be able to claim som...So, you say Obama et al <I>might be able to claim something of a mandate.</I><BR/><BR/>WTF?!?<BR/><BR/>Dude, this was a flat out, old fashioned, balls to the wall take-no-prisoners ass-kicking, with a little neck-stomping just to make sure the message came across.<BR/><BR/>INDIANA!!11!<BR/><BR/>(Quick blog-whoring: I wrote up a more detailed analysis at my place)<BR/><BR/>I do, however, welcome your intention to focus on ideas. I'm very comfortable in that realm.Rightwingsnarklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008057973658098952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-74905059191614251482008-11-05T16:02:00.000-05:002008-11-05T16:02:00.000-05:00James: I think "reaching out" and failing to follo...James: I think "reaching out" and failing to follow real conservative principles is exactly what the GOP has been doing, and it has obviously hurt them because they look just like Democrats.Bullfroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12019620619450825193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-33211323400477189892008-11-05T15:33:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:33:00.000-05:00Not true? There was footage all over the internet...Not true? There was footage all over the internet with it. In plain sight. So tell me, they were just there to help everyone find their way in safely right? They called themselves security for crying out loud.<BR/><BR/><BR/>ROTFLMAO.....I'm a racist, huh? Yeah, like I haven't heard that before from the likes of you. Be original will ya? <BR/><BR/>NEWSFLASH....Everyone that did not vote for Obama is not a racist. Everyone that thinks some voters only voted for him because he was black are not racist! You've played that race card one too many times to be credible!<BR/><BR/>Are you familiar with the Howard Stern Video? Apparently not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-90280393479465099002008-11-05T15:03:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:03:00.000-05:00Jennifer typed:'Oh c'mon now, are you actually say...Jennifer typed:<BR/><BR/>'Oh c'mon now, are you actually saying that the Black Pathers aren't racist? I don't know what world you are living in, certainly not this one.'<BR/><BR/>Even you must know the reference was to 'Black Panthers' 'intimidating' voters in Philadelphia which, unsurprisingly, turned out not to be true.<BR/><BR/>But in reference to your question the Black Panthers weren't racist. No more (nor less) so than you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-7138207166949844512008-11-05T15:01:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:01:00.000-05:00Arthurstone,"We want freedom for all black men hel...Arthurstone,<BR/><BR/>"We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails."<BR/><BR/>"We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our Black Community."<BR/><BR/>"We want all black men to be exempt from military service."<BR/><BR/>"We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States."<BR/><BR/>"We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny."<BR/><BR/>This is from their platform, care to try that arguement again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-18642957396056866282008-11-05T14:26:00.000-05:002008-11-05T14:26:00.000-05:00The GOP has some work to do. It got 6% of the blac...The GOP has some work to do. It got 6% of the black vote (if Obama was white it would have gotten 10%), it got 35% of the Hispanic vote, it got less than 40% of the youth vote. It is the party of the south and great plains. As demographics continue to shift, it will need to find a way in reaching out to more voters. <BR/><BR/>I respect McCain for the speech he gave last night. Good Bye Palin.James Manninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15469290464817310368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-41458352848423099202008-11-05T14:18:00.000-05:002008-11-05T14:18:00.000-05:00tao: check the numbers. We actually had 3 million...tao: check the numbers. We actually had 3 million plus FEWER people cast votes in '08 than we did in '04, most likely due to McCain failing to really energize the conservative base.<BR/><BR/>People are obviously ecstatic over Obama's big win, and there is no harm in that. Let's make sure we keep our eyes open though.Bullfroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12019620619450825193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-89215275017454285022008-11-05T12:47:00.000-05:002008-11-05T12:47:00.000-05:00Obama's campaign was packed with lies, and In addi...Obama's campaign was packed with lies, and In addition, Obama had benefited from a bias media.<BR/>I don't congratulate Obama at all.<BR/><BR/>Would you also congratulate the Racist Black Panthers for contributing to his victory?<BR/>No there is no reason to congratulate Obama. None at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-12820062027724462182008-11-05T12:41:00.000-05:002008-11-05T12:41:00.000-05:00Patrick,If there is ever going to be a true conser...Patrick,<BR/><BR/>If there is ever going to be a true conservative movement in this country then it must control the fascist fringe that haunts conservatism as much as the socialist fringe haunts liberalism.<BR/><BR/>You also need to start with the concept of individualism and respect for the individual. Which means that you cannot go around wanting to dictate morality and how people live their lives. <BR/><BR/>Secondly, give up on the tax stand and rather, start off with a balanced budget stand. Lower taxes with no budget reference just leads to excessive spending.<BR/><BR/>Obviously, there will come times for borrowing...but lets put that out as a referendum let the people vote if we are to go in debt.<BR/><BR/>There, that would give us a party that would be attractive and popular.<BR/><BR/>Of course it would never win an election because people actually want big government and free money....<BR/><BR/>As far as Barack goes...do not underestimate him...he is going to be in office for eight years....and he never said anything about the poor or equalization...he always said the middle class...I suspect he is going to anger as many liberals as he does conservatives BUT he will carve out a new moderate majority.....<BR/><BR/>It might actually help Patrick if you dealt with the hate and paranoia of the conservative movement first...true change will never occur until it is realized that strictly believing in theories can blind you. Supply side economics is a great concept and it can work...but it was known to create economics bubbles....and now that we have had two we need to deal with it. We also know that supply side economics coupled with globalization will lead to excessive concentrations of wealth and concentrations of wealth is a negative in regards to economic growth.<BR/><BR/>going to have to deal with that one to....<BR/><BR/>NAFTA was great in theory also...but now we are dealing with reality...even Alan Greenspan has had to acknowledge that his blind faith in theories made him suspectibable to false logic...TAOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452702225885449029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-91855707969537929952008-11-05T12:37:00.001-05:002008-11-05T12:37:00.001-05:00Mark typed:'But now, as we have elected a black pr...Mark typed:<BR/><BR/>'But now, as we have elected a black president, unless you have evidence, I am officially declaring systemic racism over in the United States of America.'<BR/><BR/><BR/>Wish it were so.<BR/><BR/>Sadly the very first comment on this thread puts that idea to rest. As does the second.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-10328132644511628842008-11-05T12:37:00.000-05:002008-11-05T12:37:00.000-05:00John McCain's concession speech was all class. Go...John McCain's concession speech was all class. Good for him.<BR/><BR/>I agree with comments here on getting rid of anger and bitterness and invective. What good does it do.<BR/><BR/>Patrick, have a go at Obama's ideas, policies, big ears--fine. I wish the other rightwing blogs I've been reading would become adults and understand that divisiveness and anger get us nowhere.<BR/><BR/>Let's all try to be AMERICANS--not conservatives and liberals.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-9645275649436508402008-11-05T09:41:00.000-05:002008-11-05T09:41:00.000-05:00Fuck You GOP!Now why am I being so harsh toward th...<B>Fuck You GOP!</B><BR/><BR/><I>Now why am I being so harsh toward the Republican party? The reason I'm going to vent now is because the GOP has, over the last decade, slowly assumed all the roles of a big government, big spending, nanny state party. In other words, Democrats. You showed that with stupid shit like the dastardly bastardly bailout. You kept piling on the shit like the medicare drug program. You grew the government like crack-addled sea monkeys. And you picked the most liberal candidate you could, someone who pissed on conservatism regularly, and only threw us a bone(r) in the form of Sarah Palin when he realized we were ready to watch the party burn.<BR/><BR/>For that, you are now as out of power as in the Carter days. Enjoy the wilderness, motherfuckers. Then, when you're ready to be the beacon of hope for freedom, come talk to us conservatives and we'll show you the way.</I><BR/><BR/>Spoken like a true patriot.<BR/><BR/>If you need a bit of inspiration Patrick I urge you to check out Edward Griffin's "An Idea Whose Time Has Come" video.Name: Soapboxgodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894163990538183457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-31092790433785880632008-11-05T09:07:00.000-05:002008-11-05T09:07:00.000-05:00Folks, voter turn out set records and for the firs...Folks, voter turn out set records and for the first time we actually have a President who won an outright majority of a majority! <BR/><BR/>Lets also not forget that Obama defeated Hillary Clinton in the primary which means that he defeated a traditional Liberal Democrat candidate before he defeated a traditional Republican candidate.<BR/><BR/>He also won last night with two thirds of the people with incomes of over 100,000 a year voting FOR him!<BR/><BR/>With the participation levels of yesterdays election being what they were, there is no silent majority any longer. <BR/><BR/>What everyone needs to come to grips with is the fact that this was a transformation and that the traditional terms of Liberalism and Conservatism no longer mean what they used to mean.<BR/><BR/>Leadership of this country has been transferred to a new generation with different definitions than those we are comfortable with.<BR/><BR/>As long as you continue to view this election using the old political matrix then you will not totally understand what has occurred.<BR/><BR/>Obama has come to power without the family connections of a Bush, FDR, or a JFK. He has come to power without the political connections of a Clinton or McCain. He came to power on the hopes and dreams of a bunch of little people who donated small amounts of money over two years ago. You are right, we don't know much about him...but he never made this election about himself.<BR/><BR/>I bet he ends up putting a cabinent together that will be split with Republicans and Democrats and I also see him pushing Pelosi and Reid to the side...<BR/><BR/>Its the dawn of a different age and as long as you continue to operate with the old dogma you are going to miss the change...<BR/><BR/>Sharpton, Jackson and all of their kind have been retired...but so has Bill Clinton. But the same holds true for the Bush dynasty and the idolation of Ronald Reagan...<BR/><BR/>Even Russia is worried this morning because of the outpouring of support around the world for Obama....nothing makes me happier than to see Putin and crew pissed off....<BR/><BR/>Its the first day of a new world....time to change folks...and its time to redefine Conservatism....George Bush destroyed the concept as it used to be and there is no going back...TAOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452702225885449029noreply@blogger.com