tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post8928114771856711423..comments2023-07-07T04:02:25.375-04:00Comments on Sane Political Discourse: "WHAT ARE WE DOING TO OUR CHILDREN!!!!!"Patrick Mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-31430642758526761002010-05-27T14:18:36.844-04:002010-05-27T14:18:36.844-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-76428369631137254992010-05-27T08:30:09.035-04:002010-05-27T08:30:09.035-04:00Probably 10%. So, where is your answer? And if you...Probably 10%. So, where is your answer? And if you can cut teacher pay without losing teachers (and use the money to keep schools open and hire more teachers), then why isn't that a good idea? What is the critical mission, after all. Fattening wallets, or education?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-28374143745907733562010-05-26T12:58:35.459-04:002010-05-26T12:58:35.459-04:00'BB: How much of a cut would they take and sti...'BB: How much of a cut would they take and still stay at their jobs?'<br />Good question; how much would you?BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-37134550532554358682010-05-26T08:36:58.223-04:002010-05-26T08:36:58.223-04:00I've trimmed my portfolio considerably because...I've trimmed my portfolio considerably because I think another crash is coming this year. Still, I don't agree with many things Exxon oe GE lobby for or political causes they support financially.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-15053596272508820202010-05-26T07:59:07.586-04:002010-05-26T07:59:07.586-04:00"I'm not sure about the Teacher's rul..."I'm not sure about the Teacher's rules. There are restrictions to using dues money for political campaigns but I concede these are easily gotten around."<br /><br />Yes. I have read the magazine for the UAW called "Solidarity", which is purely partisan political activism. I checked and it looks like this is funded from <b>general dues</b>. I believe in free speech, and don't have a problem with this except that UAW members are forced into the union against their will.<br /><br />Either ban this type of political abuse, or give each worker free choice in whether or not to join/pay dues.<br /><br />BB: How much of a cut would they take and still stay at their jobs?<br /><br />"If you were to ban corporate contributions I'd go along with banning union contributions."<br /><br />In this situation, it is apples and oranges. No one is forced to join/participate in a corporation against their will. But if you did find examples of that, I'd also support such restrictions.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-36230859465631073892010-05-25T18:19:01.617-04:002010-05-25T18:19:01.617-04:00NEA must spend a lot defending against lawsuits
Ou...NEA must spend a lot defending against <a href="http://www.landmarklegal.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=161" rel="nofollow">lawsuits</a><br />Our local teachers took a 2% cut this year (so powerful is their union) and my wife continues to pay dues to the Retired Educators group..most of which goes to set up scholarships.BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-28121324738637606192010-05-25T16:11:14.094-04:002010-05-25T16:11:14.094-04:00I'm not sure about the Teacher's rules. Th...I'm not sure about the Teacher's rules. There are restrictions to using dues money for political campaigns but I concede these are easily gotten around.<br /><br /><br /> If you were to ban corporate contributions I'd go along with banning union contributions.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-2680306513927589292010-05-25T12:05:25.601-04:002010-05-25T12:05:25.601-04:00I might be more amenable to closed shop if there w...I might be more amenable to closed shop if there were very tight controls on what is done with the dues money (i.e. no political usage). Way too often dues are just used as a slush fund for anything the union bosses want, including any political cause.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-31847558129998113272010-05-24T08:46:06.893-04:002010-05-24T08:46:06.893-04:00They will not get better benefits or pay. They wil...They will not get better benefits or pay. They will be blamed for bad students and bad parents just as they are now.<br /><br /><br /> The Smart teachers know that their best protection and chance for better benefits and security is through the union.<br /><br /><br /><br /> Here is part of the real problem that for some reason I'm the only one who ever seems to mention it: Lazy management.<br /><br /> Union contracts included work rules and the right of management to establish work and safety rules. These included the sole right to hire, fire, discipline and determine production methods and standards. If management is too lazy to enforce these rules it's not labor's fault. <br /><br /><br /> It's in the interest of labor to either get the dead weight trained right or moved out. Contracts have the procedures lined out to do this. <br /><br /><br /> As to your asking about the union being required to defend them, I would support closed shops requiring union membership as long as a minimum of 75% of the workforce voted or signed the card in favor of joining. <br /><br /> Any less than that is a waste of time for the union. It will spend a boatload of money on negotiations and other costs for a shop that isn't truly committed to organizing. There's a business side to this also. <br /><br /><br /> Sorry if this is veering from your topic too much Patrick.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-2241129203492848242010-05-24T00:11:43.477-04:002010-05-24T00:11:43.477-04:00"If the teachers who decide not to join the u..."If the teachers who decide not to join the union give up all the benefits and security of being in the union, then fine Dmarks."<br /><br />They could get even better benefits because these will tend to be the better teachers. They can keep the benefits, which are in contrast earned honestly.<br /><br />A company, school, or other workplace might then tend to fire the subpar teachers who gravitate to the union; those who advance through just sitting there and making threats, instead of through excellence. Imagine that: merit being considered! "What's best for education" replacing "how much can I screw the school system for".<br /><br />"But the law says the union has to defend them."<br /><br />Do you support removing this law?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-31045891417514869362010-05-23T11:07:38.710-04:002010-05-23T11:07:38.710-04:00If the teachers who decide not to join the union g...If the teachers who decide not to join the union give up all the benefits and security of being in the union, then fine Dmarks. But the law says the union has to defend them. Why do you think it's fair for people who don't pay for benefits to get them Dmarks? I thought you were a fiscally responsible guy. <br /><br /><br /> Or is it you just like suck ass scab workers?Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-49156871073096107152010-05-22T11:41:24.098-04:002010-05-22T11:41:24.098-04:00Truth: It's the NEA that is anti-worker. The v...Truth: It's the NEA that is anti-worker. The vast majority of its members are forced to join it and give it money. No way do they want workers to have a choice. Perhaps the 'anti-worker extremist' label fits you when you want to see workers forced into unions.<br /><br />As for "fairly", tell me what the prioritoy of the education system should be? To pay people way above the market value of the work, or to educate the children? When the two come into conflict, I side with the children.<br /><br />And, actually, I am the one insisting on fair pay here. You seem to oppose it.<br /><br />As for BB, his "Poor teachers should be terminated" goes against the demands of the NEA.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-43584581082141205582010-05-21T17:05:22.831-04:002010-05-21T17:05:22.831-04:00Your anti worker extremism has always troubled me ...Your anti worker extremism has always troubled me Dmarks. <br /><br /> BB just talked about the dangers of being a teacher and you're angry they want to be compensated fairly.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-40304690106775707612010-05-20T05:50:06.276-04:002010-05-20T05:50:06.276-04:00The NEA is all about how much money it can take aw...The NEA is all about how much money it can take away from the education system, and will do anything to protect its mission. Even if it means blocking meaningful education reform, including blocking efforts to make sure teachers do their jobs.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-6077426007704245892010-05-19T17:49:22.568-04:002010-05-19T17:49:22.568-04:00I agree. There are enough bad teachers to give th...I agree. There are enough bad teachers to give the whole trade a bad name, which unfortunately tags the excellent ones as well.<br />Poor teachers should be terminated, it happens in all other trades (well Dr.s<br />stick together at times).<br />My wife retired 5 years back and volunteers one day a week at elementary,<br />she loves kids and likes to see them learn, paycheck or not. Like you, I would get shitcanned in a minute!BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-56240804852288876462010-05-19T17:22:05.443-04:002010-05-19T17:22:05.443-04:00BB: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about (o...BB: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about (once I made sense of the whole comment).<br /><br />There used to be a time when common sense generally ruled in the classroom, parents didn't threaten guns (or worse, lawyers) when the kids were out of line (they whipped the kids ass when they got them home), and you could grab hold of students to stop them from beating the shit out of each other. <br /><br />There are a few good things in the regulation (like the things aimed at equipping teachers to teach those who can't function in normal classrooms (I have one). But most of the top-down bureaucracy of a federal government education system tends to impede the ability of educators to educate. Then there's the lawsuit-happy culture, the "perfect parent" culture, and the antithesis of good education, government teachers unions. So as a parent, I'm just going to engage the teachers my children do have contact with and try to keep them focused on teaching (and giving them shit when they have to deal with mandated shit).<br /><br />And I did think about getting into teaching (after wasting four years in college for a degree I didn't really care about). From what you read here, how long do you think I'd last before getting shitcanned? Imagine my response to the gun nut dad, for example?Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-60510978608588472142010-05-17T19:36:22.113-04:002010-05-17T19:36:22.113-04:00"pissing off their teachers over dumb state a..."pissing off their teachers over dumb state and federally mandated shit,.." Oh, they already are. Federal mandates like<br />P.L. 102-109, Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and the 'section 504'. Public schools make a very costly effort with special ed, ADD, ADHD, crack baby kids, MS etc. Parental support? My wife put a kid on detention, Daddy called and said he was coming with his gun and they had a lockdown and police guard. Discipline? She broke up a fight between two brothers kicking each other. Got a broken thumb.<br />Couldn't report it in offical channels (physically interfering, you know) and paid her own med bills. Don't complain about schools-go, teach...BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.com