tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post1777135280855750558..comments2023-07-07T04:02:25.375-04:00Comments on Sane Political Discourse: Why the Individual MattersPatrick Mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-50903212177422176912010-01-27T19:35:44.620-05:002010-01-27T19:35:44.620-05:00Thanks. Socialist policy starts to go rapidly down...Thanks. Socialist policy starts to go rapidly downhill with the whole idea that the ruling elites should control the "means of production", as opposed to capitalism, where ownership is left to the people.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-31887255752113597612010-01-27T11:08:34.933-05:002010-01-27T11:08:34.933-05:00You'll get no argument from me dmarks. Well sa...You'll get no argument from me dmarks. Well said.Name: Soapboxgodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894163990538183457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-23195357818487902862010-01-27T09:56:28.651-05:002010-01-27T09:56:28.651-05:00Soap said: "And, if something cannot very wel...Soap said: "And, if something cannot very well in practice bring about its intended result it cannot (and let's be clear about this) then be good in theory."<br /><br />Yeah. Like a theory that if you flap your arms real hard, you can jump off a cliff and fly. It might look good on paper, and you can write it (like socialists do) while ignoring real evidence. And it makes everyone <i>feel good</i>. Who doesn't love the idea of flying like this?<br /><br />But when it tried in the real world, you get corpses piling up at the bottom of the cliff. (seque to image of the skull piles of Cambodia... evidence of a thorough effort to apply socialism to the real world).<br /><br />So, let's just leave it on paper where it won't do anyone any harm, ok?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-78542823343084209202010-01-27T09:45:51.933-05:002010-01-27T09:45:51.933-05:00Soap. Yes, it is a failure in practice, because it...Soap. Yes, it is a failure in practice, because it has nothing to do with human nature, reality, real history, and how things work.<br /><br />The whole "dialectic of history" (the progress of class struggle) framework is based on imagination. It has as much to do with actual human history as Velikovsky has to do with actual astronomy.<br /><br />Marxian and Socialist ideas really should only have the stature of religion in the real of public discourse. That is, let people believe, but keep them out of public policy.<br /><br />Mistakes of letting socialism become public policy have resulted in more human catastrophy than any theocracy (religious government) has. Keep these bad ideas in a place where they can't do any harm.<br /><br />Socialist ideas have so little do with reality that the only way they can come about is with extreme force and great effort (i.e. a totalitarian government enforcing extremely stringent rules and getting rid of anyone who doesn't conform).dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-35585558369966304332010-01-27T09:42:05.827-05:002010-01-27T09:42:05.827-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-37011353031839970972010-01-27T09:24:04.674-05:002010-01-27T09:24:04.674-05:00The reason why we don't take to making inquiri...The reason why we don't take to making inquiries with others who adhere to socialist tendencies is because we don't base our conclusions of the subject on <i>feeling</i>. We reach our conclusions based on reason, logic, and fact.<br /><br />Socialism as a means towards a utopian society, while it might very well sound good in theory to a great many, is a failure in practice. <br /><br />And, if something cannot very well in practice bring about its intended result it cannot (and let's be clear about this) then be good in theory.Name: Soapboxgodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894163990538183457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-6043467079817225072010-01-26T18:25:03.228-05:002010-01-26T18:25:03.228-05:00"You don't understand socialism. Period.&..."You don't understand socialism. Period."<br /><br />One big asterisk after that period: I DO understand socialism. Because I look at what happens when it is tried. I look at it from a critical view, looking at what happens when things are tried. I look at the flat-out false assumptions that it is based on, which is why it turns out the opposite of how socialists claim it will. Pol Pot being one of the most pure examples. <br /><br />"What you rail against is your interpretation of socialism"<br /><br />It's actually the majority interpretation of it (most socialists) with a strong eye to the pragmatic. How does it REALLY work in practice? When the rubber hits the road? Instead of pure imaginary theory like Marx's rants that have little connection to real world situations.<br /><br />"which comes from I'm not sure what sources, but obviously has been formulated without consulting those who actually adhere to socialist principles and work towards a socialist nation."<br /><br />It is them that I look at most closely. Those whose work always includes diminishing the power of the ruled while endowing the rulers with more and more privilege.<br /><br />"I would suggest to you that you look to those who claim socialism as their ideology, and ask them what THEY stand for, and what THEY believe, and what political goals THEY have."<br /><br />Follow the walk, not the talk. Socialists are great at saying "We're doing this to help you" while making things much worse for those they claim to help. No thanks. I can see right through the whitewashing.<br /><br />They do this much better than right-wing fascists, although some great socialist leaders like Hugo Chavez slip up and use a lot of right-wing fascist terminology (crush the Jews, etc).dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-72149981935679925272010-01-26T17:32:35.902-05:002010-01-26T17:32:35.902-05:00You don't understand socialism. Period.
What...You don't understand socialism. Period.<br /><br />What you rail against is your interpretation of socialism, which comes from I'm not sure what sources, but obviously has been formulated without consulting those who actually adhere to socialist principles and work towards a socialist nation.<br /><br />I would suggest to you that you look to those who claim socialism as their ideology, and ask them what THEY stand for, and what THEY believe, and what political goals THEY have.<br /><br />This would give you some accurate information from the actual source, as it were, and not from some third party.<br /><br />I also extend this same advice to those who choose to bash the beliefs of others' religions, whilst never actually examining firsthand, from the actual source, what those people believe and why they believe it.<br /><br />It's called 'getting your information from the people who know'.Satyavati devi dasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980257934310271457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-69907128678418031692010-01-26T17:14:21.867-05:002010-01-26T17:14:21.867-05:00Not left asked: "So tell me, what fucking rig...Not left asked: "So tell me, what fucking right do my lazy ass friends have to reap the benefits of all this labor and sacrifice?"<br /><br />What right? The right of greed. They see stealing from others as preferable to working for it.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-62133108451717433002010-01-26T17:09:11.779-05:002010-01-26T17:09:11.779-05:00The individual is paramount in socialism. But the ...The individual is paramount in socialism. But the only individuals who matter are the ruling elites. They get to maximize their individual wants/needs/desires at the expense of the ruled.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-56138806851935570592010-01-26T09:32:20.030-05:002010-01-26T09:32:20.030-05:00The only reason why SDD and others of her ideologi...The only reason why SDD and others of her ideological persuasion want to better understand socialism is not so that they can better identify it and thwart it at every instance. To be certain it is instead so that they may continue to advocate its implementation and (as they see it) its virtues by redefining or retooling the various parts of its equation.<br /><br />All the while doing so they attempt to "tweak" it here or "tweak" it there and dismiss, in the process, the fundamental premise that it is not a problem with specific intracacies of Socialistic policy but rather the problem lies with the entire equation that is Socialism as a whole. And, to restate myself, it is flawed because it is a social experiment which is antithetical to the fundamental nature of man's very existence.Name: Soapboxgodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894163990538183457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-50052475579096393212010-01-25T22:06:30.570-05:002010-01-25T22:06:30.570-05:00JR, who's NL: I think there was a point in th...JR, who's NL: I think there was a point in that rant. Normally I'd delete it, but I have a feeling you were locked in a closet as a kid and are just desperate to express yourself in cat-lady craziness.<br /><br />So....Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-2929087661218328122010-01-25T11:24:26.372-05:002010-01-25T11:24:26.372-05:00So tell me, what fucking right do my lazy ass frie...So tell me, what fucking right do my lazy ass friends have to reap the benefits of all this labor and sacrifice? Air you can breathe is a right. Something that comes at great cost and effort, that is a privilege you should have to earn your access to. But, as you've noticed, whoa, wait a minute, we are suddently WAY THE FUCK OFF TOPIC. Because this has nothing to do with fixing the economy, which is in complete collapse.<br />Oh, wait. I forgot. Even though we have supposed liberals and Democrats in office, corporate profits are all that matter. Corporate numbers are starting to look better. Ah. So, right, the economy is starting - I'll try not to puke or swear - to get better. Really. Look you dumb fuck numbnuts. Don't start with your asshole talk, as you are now about to, "Hmm, there may be a 'double-dip' in housing." It's not a double dip, it's the same continuing crash. Crashes aren't straight lines, they do hit bottoms, come up a bit, then continue down, as any first grader who can look at a chart knows. And don't start with 'jobless recovery.' Next thing, I know, you'll be expecting consumer spending to return, since that's 2/3 of the economy, as you like to point out when you encourage us to spend money we don't have. Oh wait, that's right, you aren't concerned we don't have jobs, you want the credit markets to loosen back up so we can continue to spend money we don't have. Isn't that the best of all, the best part of the scheme, and really the best scam in the history of ever. The goal was to be able to have all the money go to corporate profits without having any of it shared with workers. There was one problem: yes, as said above, without consumer spending, corporate profits aren't so good. WAIT! said one brilliant scumbag. What if we get people to spend without paying them? How the fuck will you do that? Just give them more and more types of and access to credit! BRILLIANT! And so this is the setup we are being told is about to recover. Really. Consumers, which dictate 2/3 of the economy, are about to somehow go back to spending money they don't have, and that will make everything well. We aren't going to do anything to bring jobs home, we'll ignore the looming retirement disaster as a whole generation - the super-sized Baby Boomer one at that - retires without any pensions to live on, and we'll ignore the fact that the individuals of the nation not only aren't earning money to spend, but have massive debt. No, no stimulus will help, idiots. Here's a riddle: if you borrow a trillion dollars from the Chinese, give it to people to spend, and it mainly ends up going back to the Chinese since that's where the corporations who get the money do their spending, what does that stimulate? Yes, correct, the Chinese get a great double-stimulation: America now owes them another tril, and most of that tril actually just gets handed back to them and their workers by the American companies that have their plants over in China! Wow! That helps America by.... um. Right, billions for Cash for Clunkers, and who got more of that cash than anyone else? You can kiss these Liberals assholes backsides all day long if you want to Patrick, but it's still what it is. A Fucking socialist asshole running the most powerful country in the world.Not Left, Just Rightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-25496998623805732642010-01-25T11:23:57.668-05:002010-01-25T11:23:57.668-05:00So here we are. Again. A huge sum of debt has be...So here we are. Again. A huge sum of debt has been run up, this time rewarding people who took out stupid loans and handing people, a number of whom are just the ones who goofed off at school, cut class, don't like to work hard, have crappy attitudes so can't keep jobs, keep popping out babies without thinking about the costs or consequences... these have become, "Those poor people without health insurance, it should be their right." I have lazy ass friends, and friends who make choices like to pursue the arts instead of a job that would give them health benefits. Tell me this: Health care as we have it only exists because of a ton of work done and being done on a daily basis by countless people who have sacrificed and labored to make it so. Doctors who went a quarter mil into debt and sacrificed a decade of their lives - longer if you count earlier school years - to be able to do what they do; nurses who work the toughest of jobs; researchers, who spend years locked away with rats in dark labs so that we can have the medicines and treatments we have; engineers locked at desks going over equations so dull that most of us would rather shoot ourselves than try to follow along, so that they can come up with the amazing equipment our hospitals have; administrators and fundraisers and generous people in the community who have labored for decades, centuries, to make the hospitals we have reality, to make the medical services we have available.Not Left, Just Rightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-44305010772706047002010-01-24T14:19:04.906-05:002010-01-24T14:19:04.906-05:00Dmarks: To answer the obvious, the individual.Dmarks: To answer the obvious, the individual.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-42672506096613270272010-01-24T14:18:36.118-05:002010-01-24T14:18:36.118-05:00FF: Talking about DICK-HEADS, Man, this blog is fu...FF: <i>Talking about DICK-HEADS, Man, this blog is full of them</i><br /><br />Thankfully, though, I have comment moderation to gleefully boot said assmunchers.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-74715174158211885202010-01-23T13:42:06.108-05:002010-01-23T13:42:06.108-05:00Tao said: "Socialism is the only tyranny? How...Tao said: "Socialism is the only tyranny? How about Fascism? Fuedalism?"<br /><br />Fascism and socialism are rather closely intertwined. Feudalism is an outdated concept: the feudalists today refer to themselves as types of socailists.<br /><br />"Of course you will claim that it is because we have become a socialistic economic system....which is cute considering that socialism was always about benefitting the masses, the workers, and the poor."<br /><br />I'd never say that, since socialism has proven to be the most effective method of crushing the masses (including workers anre poor). Socialism is always about concentrating more power and wealth in the hands of ruling elites.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-61104569327963016592010-01-23T13:39:13.153-05:002010-01-23T13:39:13.153-05:00So, Patrick, I could ask you what is most importan...So, Patrick, I could ask you what is most important, the individual, or the supposed "class" that government elites <i>think</i> people belong categorized in? But I think I know how you will answer.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-78509381475982387702010-01-23T12:06:41.123-05:002010-01-23T12:06:41.123-05:00Dmarks, Soapmatic, Satyavati, BB, and Tao (who I&#...Dmarks, Soapmatic, Satyavati, BB, and Tao (who I'm sure I'll have to correct in a bit): It's always enlightening to have a discussion over all the systems that suck liberty from the individual. Keep up the good thought.<br /><br />Tao: Despite your obsession with the "evils" of supply-side economics (which can be applied in either a free market of fascist method), I'll not try to correct you. This time. :)<br /><br />Trolls: Glad you came along for the comedy relief.<br /><br />Me: I prefer the concept of a "godhead" Patrick. Makes me shinier.<br /><br />Frank (another word for hot dog, which could also be construed as dick): Why the fuck are you talking about Scott Brown and Obama after insulting intelligent commenters? That was another post. Bye.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-40566483921560077202010-01-23T08:42:42.761-05:002010-01-23T08:42:42.761-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.FenwayFranknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-10128877467400820612010-01-23T08:37:34.617-05:002010-01-23T08:37:34.617-05:00My My My...
Socialism is the only tyranny?
How a...My My My...<br /><br />Socialism is the only tyranny?<br /><br />How about Fascism? Fuedalism?<br /><br />Or how about supply side economics and the belief that investors are superior because they create jobs?<br /><br />Seems to me in a capitalistic system based upon the concept of supply and demand when anyone aspect of the economic matrix is preferred, or given preferential treatment over the other then you in fact have created 'classes' and an aristocracy.<br /><br />That aristocracy then over time creates a tyranny....<br /><br />Then PRESTO you have "Too Big To Fail!"<br /><br />Can't help but wonder if all this debate over socialism is nothing more than a smoke screen to avoid dealing with the obvious tyranny in our current capitalistic system.<br /><br />Anyone care to argue that we do not have classes in the United States and that they were not created by supply side economics? <br /><br />Go ahead Dmarks....<br /><br />Of course you will claim that it is because we have become a socialistic economic system....which is cute considering that socialism was always about benefitting the masses, the workers, and the poor.<br /><br />Now we have "socialism" for the investors....which is fuedalism not socialism.TAOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452702225885449029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-90044455342507572352010-01-22T22:32:39.515-05:002010-01-22T22:32:39.515-05:00And somehow the Marxist/socialists/etc more than a...And somehow the Marxist/socialists/etc more than anyone play into this reality by working so hard to assume some sort of divine rule (as per the French aristocracy) justified by pseudo science, instead of religion and French culture. And they end up creating extreme class stratification.<br /><br />And the less "class" division comes when the principles that Patrick champions come into play (individualism, etc).dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-42714630925451310502010-01-22T19:07:42.305-05:002010-01-22T19:07:42.305-05:00?And much of "class struggle" is a myth....?And much of "class struggle" is a myth. It has its root in a very uncritical un-intellectual and childishly simple idea of generalizing about people based on "class". This ignores the fact of the many differences among human beings."<br /><br />Class struggle is anything but a myth. In the same way that casteism in India to this day causes riots, much of human civilization has been based on classes, one ruling or attempting to rule another. This is where 'aristocracy' comes from. This is what brought on the French Revolution. This is the mindset behind slavery, the reason Aborigines are being apologized to by the Australian government, the thought process that defines women as worth less than a man for equal work.<br /><br />The history of the human race IS about class struggle.Satyavati devi dasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980257934310271457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-74629035052371596602010-01-22T19:03:00.902-05:002010-01-22T19:03:00.902-05:00Feel free to disagree. It's easy in a non-soci...Feel free to disagree. It's easy in a non-socialist society, where "class" myths do not prevade, and you don't have the government crushing people near as much in order to fit the square peg that is humanity into the round hole of socialist ideology.<br /><br />Not surprising that the socialist societies tend to trend more to much more censorship, state control of media, and the like.<br />----------<br /><br />BB: The simple answer has nothing to do with mega-corporations. The simple answer is the the people are more able to exercise their First Amendment rights and speak on on politicians and political issues.<br /><br />SDD: And much of "class struggle" is a myth. It has its root in a very uncritical un-intellectual and childishly simple idea of generalizing about people based on "class". This ignores the fact of the many differences among human beings.<br /><br />More dangerously, this Marxist myth is used to, surprisingly enough, foster real class strife. By wanting the real ruling class (government) to have more power over the ruled. Also, ironically, this Marxist myth is used to try to wrest workers from having control over their work.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1250195226200160668.post-40446560415630078922010-01-22T18:45:51.170-05:002010-01-22T18:45:51.170-05:00It is the "don't question authority. Subm...It is the "don't question authority. Submit to it!" ideology.<br /><br />This is the same ideology that brands me as UnAmerican because I want ________, which happens to disagree with what (insert name of conservative right wing person here) thinks. The kneejerk reaction to any dissent is to brand someone as traitorous, heretical, anti American and God forbid, a socialist.<br /><br />And it's all untrue. Except the Socialist part.Satyavati devi dasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980257934310271457noreply@blogger.com